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**Official** New Zealand in Australia 2015

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Allrounder: Munro or maybe even Elliott
Both of them have had their chances and don't warrant any more. Elliot has proven to be an inconsistent test match player. Munro looked like Munro and will never be picked again even if he scores a domestic 400.

Santner is the next best all rounder.

But I sympathise with Hendrix - an average of 32 in the Plunket shield from that low down the batting order doesn't fill me with hope.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
I mean all in all, it's not an awful selection. It's a short trip for Sodhi, whoever if Craig goes down. If they were to play Santner as frontline spinner then it becomes pretty gash. But he's replaced Anderson. You could pick a batsman, but who? Brownlie has been opening, Will Young is not ready, and Munro hasn't performed either/doesn't bowl well enough to be an all-rounder. Grant is definitely not a Test bowling option and didn't set the FC world alight last season either.

They've picked a guy who showed a bit in England and looks like with more exposure to the international arena could be a genuine gun. If that happens 6 months earlier because he tours with us to Australia, I'm all for it. But it shouldn't be mistaken that he isn't ready for Test cricket. He should be a squad member who doesn't play, unless there's a further injury (then if it's to a spinner/top-order batsman, should be replaced by someone back home who steps in and plays)
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Santner is the next best all rounder.
He is. He's not a wicket-taking spinner (yet, as proven by his record), so I'd want Kane making up the 10-15 overs in Anderson's absence if we're in a good position, but as a holding option to rest bowlers, tie up an end etc, he's probably a good foil. And has shown with the bat that he'll probably contribute as much as anyone else, save probably Brownlie who is now an opener.

I think I just argued with my own post two posts ago and completely changed my opinion based on said argument with myself.
 

Moss

International Captain
Fair enough. Thinking back to the UAE tour they were prepared to play Anderson AND Neesham as high as 5 and 6, and Vettori as Neesham's replacement for the final test. So the rationale is clear, though for me it's still a bit of a stretch.

Comes from not having a McMillan or (NJ) Astle type bowler in the top 6.
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
Main question for me is, if Neesham gets injured, will they send Brownlie over to bat 6? He's the clear best option for Australian conditions and had success there last time, but is now 90% of the way to transforming himself into an opener. Not enough of an opener to replace Rutherford but too much of an opener to bat at 6? That would be unfortunate tstl.
Neesham goes down and you move Watling to 6. 7 Santner, 8 Doug.
 

Howsie

International Captain
Interested to hear the rationale for Santner over Will Young, to see if it extends past his place of birth.

Santner isn't near the next best batsman or spinner. So we've canned the Sodhi experiment and now are running with the Santner experiment.
Hesson gave it away when he took him to England. He said something along the lines of 'Decent spin prospect but we see his batting, especially in the future being his major skill. Don't look at his batting record, Santner is a lot better than that. I'll take him over Will Young everyday of the week.
 

Flem274*

123/5
That's because you're from this awful awful province though. It's the river water/Waikato Draught getting to ya.;)

In saying that, Murali Santa is A) going to be someone Ian Chappell hates and B) will score something really irritating against the run of play and all expectation if he gets a test match, and it will be hilarious.

Allrounders who are being groomed to bat at 5-7 you can take a punt on because they seem to troll it up more when they're not ready. Cakes like Young, Macewell, Mitchell etc you have to do it properly with because they bat top four.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
The Australian test season usually starts at the end of November right? Surprised it is starting early this year
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
He is. He's not a wicket-taking spinner (yet, as proven by his record), so I'd want Kane making up the 10-15 overs in Anderson's absence if we're in a good position, but as a holding option to rest bowlers, tie up an end etc, he's probably a good foil.
Yeah although I think I'll tip Santner to look like an option that's about half his normal red ball SR once he gets on Australian pitches tbh. The strong pivot he has seems to allow him to surprise a batsman with 'effort ball' revs, and (unlike KW) he gets the seam overspinning in the direction of first slip quite well.

 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah although I think I'll tip Santner to look like an option that's about half his normal red ball SR once he gets on Australian pitches tbh. The strong pivot he has seems to allow him to surprise a batsman with 'effort ball' revs, and (unlike KW) he gets the seam overspinning in the direction of first slip quite well.
He'll get there, I have every assurance of that. Which is why I like him around the squad and to play only if absolutely necessary, and then in a holding bowling/fill a spot batting role as he's not there yet by any stretch. Never met the guy but in the short time you sense he has more about him than a Macewell, Mitchell etc mentally.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
He'll get there, I have every assurance of that. Which is why I like him around the squad and to play only if absolutely necessary, and then in a holding bowling/fill a spot batting role as he's not there yet by any stretch. Never met the guy but in the short time you sense he has more about him than a Macewell, Mitchell etc mentally.
Yeah this basically summarises my thoughts on him -- if he's picked now, he can play a cheaper version of that Vettori holding no-rounder and grind out some handy runs role.
 

jcas0167

International Debutant
In the DomPost article today they indicated that Colin de Grandhomme was next non-spin bowling allrounder after Neesham. Although he's also injured.

Outside Anderson and Neesham, both world-class operators on their day, the pace bowling allrounder depth is very thin. That showed with left-arm spinner Mitchell Santner's selection as Anderson's replacement, with the next cab off the rank Colin de Grandhomme also out injured...

Should Neesham suffer a setback then Santner isn't an automatic replacement in the 11. Santner looked the part in his limited overs debut in England in June but isn't yet a test No 6, and would be superfluous as a second spinner at bouncy Brisbane with Kane Williamson also able to chip in some overs.

If, as Larsen put it, the worst case scenario unfolded then Luke Ronchi could come in to bolster the batting, with BJ Watling moving up to six and the Black Caps gambling on three frontline pacemen, spinner Mark Craig and Williamson. The other option is to play four quicks, with Doug Bracewell and Matt Henry both in, but that would shorten up the batting with Watling at six and Craig at seven.
Spotlight on Jimmy Neesham as Corey Anderson ruled out of Australian test series | Stuff.co.nz
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Neesham goes down and you move Watling to 6. 7 Santner, 8 Doug.
Depends how keen you are to invoke the Santner Clause and perhaps what the series score is when Neesham injures himself. I suppose the argument could be made that Santner's FC batting record is no worse than Jimmy's.

Seems from that article they wouldn't pick Brownlie at 6 anyway - Ronchi would instead be brought in if they wanted a specialist batsman.
 

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