*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[duffer]

Would also help if Brock did something other than stand behind Heyman smirking for 10 minutes every week. I mean I love Paul and Brock but it's the exact same thing every week, people will tune out.

 

[Athlai]

Someone on Pro Wrestling Torch (possibly Wade Keller, I can't remember) made a good point about the way the RAW shows are structured the other day. The way the RAW shows are 3 hours at the moment kind of mean a drop off in the third hour is probably inevitable, but it's probably made worse by the fact that when they have guys like Lesnar on, they usually open with them or put them out early, and then once their segment is over that's it. Done. One appearance and that's your lot. Brock goes to the back and then jets off back home, and people know this.

When the viewer knows that the big star's appearance for the night is done, what incentive is there to keep on watching? I mean, (notwithstanding the fact that Lesnar's segment on RAW the other night was pretty underwhelming) once everyone knows that the biggest attraction has made his appearance are they really going to be incentivised to hang around by promises that coming up next is Seth Rollins being harrassed by a guy who's not been credible for about ten years, and John Cena facing (i.e. beating clean) someone or other in another maaaaiiiinnn event? Can't say I'd blame them if they weren't.

Having the like of the Superstars guys hamming up their characters backstage would be a great way to fill up some of the dead air time. A 1 minute segment of Heath Slater trying to catch up with Renee Young or something to get an interview and he accidentally runs in to Lesnar. Doesn't even need to get beat down, the glare alone would be enough for the audience to love it.

Should definitely make more use of the big stars in shorter doses throughout the show, could help give some exposure to the undercard guys too.

 

[GIMH]

I really wish you'd drop it with the flair comparison. What worked for Flair doesn't work for every heel champion ever.

I do agree counting house shows doesn't make sense since they're basically non-canon anyway, but he really shouldn't be losing this much. It also doesn't help that his title defences are against over the hill 50 year olds.

Okay if the greatest heel champ of all time doesn't cut it then how about these guys

Triple H circa 2000. Lost to Funaki ffs
Heel Shawn with every title he ever held

Look I'm not saying he should be losing, but ultimately it doesn't really matter other than in being a self-fulfilling prophecy for IWC drones

 

[OverratedSanity]

I can looking it up, but I'm pretty sure 2000 HHH didn't lose anywhere near this much.

And stop with the IWC GIMH, Jr and Austin have had similar complaints.

 

[Athlai]

Sasha with one of the finest heel moments ever. WAC

 

[sledger]

Flair or other examples aside, I just really don't like the idea of having a champion booked to lose every week. I get that the whole cowardly heel thing, but I really think you can develop characters like that without having them job clean all the time.

HHH in 2000 is a pretty good example really. So many shows used to involve him being beating down the Rock, usually with stooges or DX alongside him. In TV matches he would take some losses, but would usually have some mitigation for the loss (i.e. distraction roll up, hit with a chair, didn't take the fall in a tag team match etc...). When he was confronted by the Rock one on one he'd **** a brick and bail, but when facing other upper midcard guys he'd generally beat them. The summation of all this was that you got the feeling that the guy was ultimately a yellow belly, but a genuinely nasty and dangerous dude in the right circumstances - like most bullies, I guess.

Anyway, Rollins isn't HHH, and I'm not suggesting that he should be booked in the same way, but HHH 2000 serves as a prime example that you can create a great cowardly heel character without needing to....do basically what the WWE is doing with Rollins, who has basically become the complete opposite of John Cena (Rollins loses lol). At a time when they are really in desperate need of new stars, and they have one right in front of their faces, it just seems a nonsense that they're doing things this way. It's fortunate that he's as gun as he is, because I don't see how else anyone could have got behind, or been anything other than ambivalent, to a guy who just gets beaten by everyone on the roster every week.

 

[harsh.ag]

Bubba Ray trash talking Rollins was the low point

 

[Spikey]

i still dream of Rollins and Owens somehow forming a stable and just destroying everyone

 

[sledger]

At least Owens has started beating people again. But the way he lost repeatedly after initially beating Cena on debut means he's already just gone back to being "just another guy".

I'm not saying he's been buried or anything, but the way they had him come in really strong really made me sit up and take notice and think "****, this guy really has something about him". He immediately felt like a credible and major force. Now he's basically just another midcarder in a dull feud.

And as for Cesaro... Well, I think we can all give up on him, sadly.

 

[Spikey]

Cesaro to be the one that takes Cena out for 2 months

 

[sledger]

Cesaro to be the one that takes Cena out for 2 months

Rusev imo.

Will tie into the whole "no marriage till I have gold around my waist" thing.

 

[Athlai]

It'll be Kofi.

 

[sledger]

Will lmao if it's Big Show.

 

[Athlai]

I mean surely they'll want to advertise Cenas ,match at HIAC for more than a week, and New Day are almost certainly challenging next week. So Kofi is going to kick a man in the head.

 

[GIMH]

I can looking it up, but I'm pretty sure 2000 HHH didn't lose anywhere near this much.

And stop with the IWC GIMH, Jr and Austin have had similar complaints.

Yeah HHH didn't lose as much I agree. I'm not saying he should be losing; it's not how I would do it. But I don't feel it detracts from Seth's work. It's how you get there that matters in wrestling. Shawn Michaels is Mr Wrestlemania and always will be. As a singles wrestler his WL is 5-9. It doesn't matter.

Seth will be keeping that company - Shawn Michaels quality - at the end of his career and these losses won't hurt him in the long run.

 

[GIMH]

Flair or other examples aside, I just really don't like the idea of having a champion booked to lose every week. I get that the whole cowardly heel thing, but I really think you can develop characters like that without having them job clean all the time.

HHH in 2000 is a pretty good example really. So many shows used to involve him being beating down the Rock, usually with stooges or DX alongside him. In TV matches he would take some losses, but would usually have some mitigation for the loss (i.e. distraction roll up, hit with a chair, didn't take the fall in a tag team match etc...). When he was confronted by the Rock one on one he'd **** a brick and bail, but when facing other upper midcard guys he'd generally beat them. The summation of all this was that you got the feeling that the guy was ultimately a yellow belly, but a genuinely nasty and dangerous dude in the right circumstances - like most bullies, I guess.

Anyway, Rollins isn't HHH, and I'm not suggesting that he should be booked in the same way, but HHH 2000 serves as a prime example that you can create a great cowardly heel character without needing to....do basically what the WWE is doing with Rollins, who has basically become the complete opposite of John Cena (Rollins loses lol). At a time when they are really in desperate need of new stars, and they have one right in front of their faces, it just seems a nonsense that they're doing things this way. It's fortunate that he's as gun as he is, because I don't see how else anyone could have got behind, or been anything other than ambivalent, to a guy who just gets beaten by everyone on the roster every week.

What match has Rollins lost that actually mattered though since Mania? One with Cena for the US title and it was followed by him putting on a blinder afterwards and retaining the world. Priorities.

 

[sledger]

What match has Rollins lost that actually mattered though since Mania? One with Cena for the US title and it was followed by him putting on a blinder afterwards and retaining the world. Priorities.

The problem is I can't remember him winning any matches that didn't matter either, and all these matches that don't matter add up imo. Kind of a trickle down effect.

It's not that he loses a lot, it's that he seems to never not lose. That is the issue for me.

Agree that it won't hurt him in the long term. It's just that at the present and in the short term, for me personally, it's one of the main reasons why my interest in the product is the lowest it's been in years.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ziggler

 

[Athlai]

Besides Cena on Night of Champions he has only been losing singles due to distraction or interference. The tag matches are totally meaningless and end in shenanigans or the other guy eats the pin.

We're getting a Seth now that doesn't run away from a fight, with the odds stacked against him constantly and who is putting his own body on the line to overcome greater odds.

If he wasn't still promoing as a heel you'd think he was a baby face. I just wonder how Sting being totally out may have affected Seths storyline over the last few months. I honestly thought we were going to head towards Authority vs. Seth. Now I have NFI what's happening, surely Kane won't win, which means it's Kane against the authority.

 

[sledger]

He ran away from Kane literally just the other day.