Pool A - Australia, England, Wales, Fiji, Uruguay

[ripper868]

Yeah McMahon is class. A backrow of him, Hooper and Pocok not entirely out of the question for the last 15 minutes - would be carnage at the breakdown.

 

[Hurricane]

To be fair to myself and McMahon I assessed him in his first two games back after injury so perhaps he wasn't playing with full gusto.
Combine that with the fact I am a massive jordy Reid fan that means I don't have him rated as the third best 7 in Australia.
I don't really know why any 7 is on the bench when you have two in the starting line up. Would put an 8 and a 6 on the bench before a 7.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Dreaming

As a pilferer, Pocock is arguably the best ever

Hooper has different skills but is an amazing footballer

McGrath and Gill would make virtually every test team

Little doubt that Oz have 4/5 best 7s in world rugby

It's the rest of our team that is the worry

I rate the Aussie 7s, but they are clearly below Sir Richie (greatest player in a team sport since Michael Jordan).

Sam Cane is as good as Pocock and Hooper and Ardie Savea is going to be a better player than big brother Julian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Igqak4u2c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHTZ0M7nIjU

 

[social]

I rate the Aussie 7s, but they are clearly below Sir Richie (greatest player in a team sport since Michael Jordan).

Sam Cane is as good as Pocock and Hooper and Ardie Savea is going to be a better player than big brother Julian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Igqak4u2c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHTZ0M7nIjU

I wouldn't swap Pocock for anybody - when fit, he's the best I have ever seen at what he does

Obviously splitting hairs when it comes to guys of that standard

In terms of team sports, McCaw is overrated IMO e.g. league players like Johns and Thurston are definitely better all-round footballers and that is just one sport

To put things into perspective, Folau is definitely at least a rung below the superstars in league

 

[the big bambino]

Kuridrani is an underrated player.

Not by Brumbies spectators and fans.

Surprised a little about comments re McMahon. Looks good now with real potential to be a star imo. Anyway lets see how that goes.

Just back again on Cooper. He is frustrating. To win the cup the Wallabies will need something special the other sides wont expect and Cooper is capable of that surprise. However I can't see see him carving up the top teams like he did Uruguay. In fact he's much more likely to do a brain fart and get us eliminated. Hence Foley, not bcos of any expectation of magic from him, but the smaller risk he represents. The hoped for brilliance to come from Gits, Israel or Tevita.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I wouldn't swap Pocock for anybody - when fit, he's the best I have ever seen at what he does

Obviously splitting hairs when it comes to guys of that standard

In terms of team sports, McCaw is overrated IMO e.g. league players like Johns and Thurston are definitely better all-round footballers and that is just one sport

To put things into perspective, Folau is definitely at least a rung below the superstars in league

Well Folau was a kangaroo at 18 - would be up with Inglis and co if he'd stayed. Apparently Maa Nonu was close to going to league in 2008 - had he done so he would've been an ATG. Piri Weepu thought about it as well - would've been a better version of Issac Luke and Cameron Smith. To put things into perspective, the All Blacks are better than the Kiwis who are better than the Kangaroos. It is pretty hard to compare McCaw with Johns and Thurston - completely different positions. You would be better comparing Johns and Thurston with Dan Carter and Aaron Smith in terms of similar skill sets.

 

[social]

Well Folau was a kangaroo at 18 - would be up with Inglis and co if he'd stayed. Apparently Maa Nonu was close to going to league in 2008 - had he done so he would've been an ATG. Piri Weepu thought about it as well - would've been a better version of Issac Luke and Cameron Smith. To put things into perspective, the All Blacks are better than the Kiwis who are better than the Kangaroos. It is pretty hard to compare McCaw with Johns and Thurston - completely different positions. You would be better comparing Johns and Thurston with Dan Carter and Aaron Smith in terms of similar skill sets.

Maybe I'm being unfair but I have always regarded Folau as Inglis-lite - brilliant footballer but not quite as big, fast or skilful.

GI is a freak and it's a shame that his skills haven't been seen on a world stage

Assuming that Nonu could cope with the higher work-rate, he'd have been a great league player

Weepu is a half back without great self-discipline so hardly comparable to Smith

Whilst their skill sets are different, I think that you can compare McCaw with Johns & Thurston as all are/were responsible for driving their sides forward

However, whilst McCaw's role is "confined" (not under-playing it btw - he is obviously an all-time great player and captain) to leading the forwards and berating the ref (), Johns/Thurston are responsible for the direction of the entire team plus they kick goals at 80+% and all whilst being targeted by the Sam Burgess' of the world in defence at virtually every ruck -think it's fair to say if Australia had been able to pick just these 2 plus Lewis as their stand-off at various RWCs then it's likely that we would have more than 2 to our name as they are/were infinitely better than their rugby counterparts

 

[hendrix]

However, whilst McCaw's role is "confined" (not under-playing it btw - he is obviously an all-time great player and captain) to leading the forwards and berating the ref (), Johns/Thurston are responsible for the direction of the entire team plus they kick goals at 80+% and all whilst being targeted by the Sam Burgess' of the world in defence at virtually every ruck -think it's fair to say if Australia had been able to pick just these 2 plus Lewis as their stand-off at various RWCs then it's likely that we would have more than 2 to our name as they are/were infinitely better than their rugby counterparts

How much union have you played/watched? Serious question.

 

[hendrix]

McCaw would be an atrocious league player, Johns would be a pretty awful union player.

 

[Hurricane]

Not by Brumbies spectators and fans.

Surprised a little about comments re McMahon. Looks good now with real potential to be a star imo. Anyway lets see how that goes.

Just back again on Cooper. He is frustrating. To win the cup the Wallabies will need something special the other sides wont expect and Cooper is capable of that surprise. However I can't see see him carving up the top teams like he did Uruguay. In fact he's much more likely to do a brain fart and get us eliminated. Hence Foley, not bcos of any expectation of magic from him, but the smaller risk he represents. The hoped for brilliance to come from Gits, Israel or Tevita.

Yes to the part in bold.

Let's all watch him to the part in red.

 

[social]

How much union have you played/watched? Serious question.

Few years grade after school

Main (and only) claim to fame was that I played in a grand final winning first grade side as a late replacement for a test player and didn't embarrass myself

 

[hendrix]

Few years grade after school

Main (and only) claim to fame was that I played in a grand final winning first grade side as a late replacement for a test player and didn't embarrass myself

Ok well it's strange that you're making comparisons across the codes as you probably well know that there are certain positions in union - openside being one of them - whose skillsets are so unique and different from league that there's little point in even discussing it.

 

[social]

Ok well it's strange that you're making comparisons across the codes as you probably well know that there are certain positions in union - openside being one of them - whose skillsets are so unique and different from league that there's little point in even discussing it.

You're probably too young to remember Ray Price (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Price_(rugby))

Not the greatest ball skills but one of the most feared rugby players of his generation

Guy had a massive engine, was tough as nails and an unquenchable desire to win

Sound familiar?

McCaw would've been great as a league back-rower as I can imagine him running through brick walls all day long and he is very, very smart

I can only assume that you haven't seen much of Johns

Carlos Spenser used to be described as freakish

Well Johns made his party tricks seem regulation as he hit them virtually every time

Add to the fact that he was tough, incredibly skilled and an 80+% goal kicker and it wasn't hard to see why the Waratahs/ARU wanted to make him the highest paid footballer in Oz when he was about to retire from league

HOWEVER, like virtually all league halves, I'd play him as stand-off in union as they spend virtually all their time as first receiver in league and that has little similarity to a union 9

It's only really the front row and locks in union and front row in league that generally couldn't code hop due to mobility/body issues with the former and technical issues with the latter

The important thing is to pick the elite and play them in a position to which they are somewhat suited e.g. Burgess at 12 was ridiculous whereas blindside or as part of a balanced lock pair (other guy must be a jumper) will probably work over time as he is a phenomenal athlete

Let's face it, if Thorn could carve out a good career for the ABs then Burgess is capable of the same for England so long as they compensate for some deficiencies

 

[Fuller Pilch]

You're probably too young to remember Ray Price (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Price_(rugby))

Not the greatest ball skills but one of the most feared rugby players of his generation

Guy had a massive engine, was tough as nails and an unquenchable desire to win

Sound familiar?

McCaw would've been great as a league back-rower as I can imagine him running through brick walls all day long and he is very, very smart

I can only assume that you haven't seen much of Johns

Carlos Spenser used to be described as freakish

Well Johns made his party tricks seem regulation as he hit them virtually every time

Add to the fact that he was tough, incredibly skilled and an 80+% goal kicker and it wasn't hard to see why the Waratahs/ARU wanted to make him the highest paid footballer in Oz when he was about to retire from league

It's only really the front row and locks in union and front row in league that generally couldn't code hop due to mobility/body issues with the former and technical issues with the latter

The important thing is to pick the elite and play them in a position to which they are somewhat suited e.g. Burgess at 12 was ridiculous whereas blindside or as part of a balanced lock pair (other guy must be a jumper) will probably work over time as he is a phenomenal athlete

Let's face it, if Thorn could carve out a good career for the ABs then Burgess is capable of the same for England so long as they compensate for some deficiencies

I think Andrew Johns would have been a very good playmaking 12 (ala Aaron Mauger, Walter Little, Matt Giteau). McCaw could've been similar to Nathan Hindmarsh or Steve Menzies. Anyway, this isn't something I say very often but good luck to the Wallabies

 

[the big bambino]

Interesting talk on the merits of rugby v league players. Just confining my comments on GI versus Israel and the former is a much better player.

 

[hendrix]

You're probably too young to remember Ray Price (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Price_(rugby))

Not the greatest ball skills but one of the most feared rugby players of his generation

Guy had a massive engine, was tough as nails and an unquenchable desire to win

Sound familiar?

McCaw would've been great as a league back-rower as I can imagine him running through brick walls all day long and he is very, very smart

I can only assume that you haven't seen much of Johns

Carlos Spenser used to be described as freakish

Well Johns made his party tricks seem regulation as he hit them virtually every time

Add to the fact that he was tough, incredibly skilled and an 80+% goal kicker and it wasn't hard to see why the Waratahs/ARU wanted to make him the highest paid footballer in Oz when he was about to retire from league

HOWEVER, like virtually all league halves, I'd play him as stand-off in union as they spend virtually all their time as first receiver in league and that has little similarity to a union 9

It's only really the front row and locks in union and front row in league that generally couldn't code hop due to mobility/body issues with the former and technical issues with the latter

The important thing is to pick the elite and play them in a position to which they are somewhat suited e.g. Burgess at 12 was ridiculous whereas blindside or as part of a balanced lock pair (other guy must be a jumper) will probably work over time as he is a phenomenal athlete

Let's face it, if Thorn could carve out a good career for the ABs then Burgess is capable of the same for England so long as they compensate for some deficiencies

I disagree with pretty much everything you've said here.

Spencer was a talented player but it speaks volumes that he was hardly ever first choice 10 for the ABs. He probably would have been a good league player with his skillset but the likes of Mehrtens (who would've been terrible at league) were simply much better union players.

Union backs have spent their lives running channels that work in flat defences without the leeway of 10m head start. Completely different running angles and passing approach. Johns was a skilled player so he might have adapted but it's ridiculous to say that he would've been up there with the best union players.

 

[social]

I disagree with pretty much everything you've said here.

Spencer was a talented player but it speaks volumes that he was hardly ever first choice 10 for the ABs. He probably would have been a good league player with his skillset but the likes of Mehrtens (who would've been terrible at league) were simply much better union players.

Union backs have spent their lives running channels that work in flat defences without the leeway of 10m head start. Completely different running angles and passing approach. Johns was a skilled player so he might have adapted but it's ridiculous to say that he would've been up there with the best union players.

That sort of thinking went out with the Ark

There a reason why many international teams employ attacking and defensive co-ordinators with league backgrounds

It's because <wait for it>, there's not a huge amount of difference between most aspects of their back play

I suggest that you read SBW's views on the matter

 

[ripper868]

So. Just scored a ticket to the match tonight from a work colleague. **** yes! Life goal complete!

 

[hendrix]

That sort of thinking went out with the Ark

There a reason why many international teams employ attacking and defensive co-ordinators with league backgrounds

It's because <wait for it>, there's not a huge amount of difference between most aspects of their back play

I suggest that you read SBW's views on the matter

SBW was a superb league player and is an above average union player.

It took him a good season to adjust to union.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

SBW was a superb league player and is an above average union player.

It took him a good season to adjust to union.

3 or 4 seasons (2 in France, then 1 or 2 in NZ depending how generous someone is)