Who would you rather have come in at No. 6 for your team with 15 overs to go?

[kiwiviktor81]

Lol then replace Williamson or Taylor with Bevan and bat him at 3 or 4 because he'd be better than both of them put together

Why would I want to replace either of them with a batsman who has a much lower strike rate?

 

[Flem274*]

arrgggghhhhhhhhh don't you see bevan would be a very different player if he was born ten years later?

nathan ****ing astle (to use an example you'll be familliar with) struck at about 70-75. in his day he was considered the hitter opener of the astle-fleming combination and is widely thought of as NZs best ever odi opener. the mccullum of the 90s and 00s struck at 70ish. 70.

he'd still be one of the first names on the team sheet if he was ten years younger and in his prime today, because he'd be batting at a much faster strike rate due to the more modern environment he developed in.

likewise, bevan would be striking at 80 or whatever today.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

our mistake, how silly of bevan to bat in the way that made him the best for his team at that time.

Yeah, Grump's hilariously bad argument was that his strike rate was low in chases. But it didn't have to be. Unless it's WSC, you don't get extra points by winning with one ball or 10 overs to spare.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why would I want to replace either of them with a batsman who has a much lower strike rate?

If you're trolling, you're doing a bloody good job.

If you're serious, may god have mercy on your soul

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

He simply wouldn't fit the team balance. There's no room for a late innings batsman striking at 72, or anywhere near that, in the current Black Caps team.

Let's say we didn't have Guptill, Williamson and Taylor at the top. Replace them with some spuds or mediocre players. Then I would love to have Bevan beacuse he'd be coming in in the 20th over a lot and then I don't care about strike rate.

I'd like to see a stat on when the Black Caps' 3rd wicket falls on average at the moment. If it's after the 35th over I maintain there would be no room for Bevan in the current BCs side.

It's better to go 5/100 in the final 10 than 0/80.

This is kind of ironic considering what happened in the World Cup final.

 

[Flem274*]

im sorry athlai

i thought your "glenn turner and other odi batsmen of the 70s shouldn't be picked in odi ATG sides because the game has changed too much" argument was eccentric and a bit loopy.

my eyes have been opened to what true "modern is great" extremism looks like.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Does it make sense to say that Olympic gold medallist sprinters 100 years ago who clocked 12s for the 100m were equally as fast as Usain Bolt because, relative to their peers, they were dominant by a similar margin?

That's essentially the pro-Bevan argument in a nutshell, and I think it's a poor one.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

These amateur guys below had SR of around 75 and they don't get into ODI team of modern days

Inzamam ul Haque SR 74.24
Sourav Ganguly SR 73.30
Jacques Kallis SR 72.89
Martin Crowe SR 72.63
Dean Jones SR 72.56

 

[stephen]

It's abundantly clear that bat technology has improved, pitches are flatter, boundaries are being brought in further and the standard of bowling is not as high as it was during the 1990s. With a modern bat in modern playing conditions, it is impossible to believe that Bevan would bat with a strike rate of less than 82/83.

 

[stephen]

Does it make sense to say that Olympic gold medallist sprinters 100 years ago who clocked 12s for the 100m were equally as fast as Usain Bolt because, relative to their peers, they were dominant by a similar margin?

That's essentially the pro-Bevan argument in a nutshell, and I think it's a poor one.

You're looking at absolutes in this argument. There's no doubt that with modern coaching, shoes, tracks, nutrition and biomechanical analysis those gold medallists would be at least 2s quicker. They might not be Usain Bolt speed but then again, they might. Remember that a lot of record-oriented sports are psychological. How many people broke the four minute mile shortly after the first guy did?

 

[Dan]

These amateur guys below had SR of around 75 and they don't get into ODI team of modern days

Inzamam ul Haque SR 74.24
Sourav Ganguly SR 73.30
Jacques Kallis SR 72.89
Martin Crowe SR 72.63
Dean Jones SR 72.56

Kallis' strike rates year-by-year, with trendline (I left off the last couple of years of his career because of the sample size -- 4, 4 and 3 matches per year vs. 10+ every other year plotted)

 

[Athlai]

im sorry athlai

i thought your "glenn turner and other odi batsmen of the 70s shouldn't be picked in odi ATG sides because the game has changed too much" argument was eccentric and a bit loopy.

my eyes have been opened to what true "modern is great" extremism looks like.

My argument has always been on Turner not fitting in an ODI ATG XI in today's conditions because we can't know for sure how well he'd have adapted to the modern game. Bevan... Played the modern game. He'd fit in our ODI ATG XI letter lone the current side.

/colesy

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Interesting how that strike rate dropped the year powerplays were introduced.

 

[Dan]

And, for contextual purposes, the graph of his average:

(i.e. the low SR in 05-06 corresponds with low average; fair to assume batting poorly?)

 

[Daemon]

Awesome. Do that for a few more batsmen with long careers and it'll probably be the same I reckon.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Yeah, seems like it. Do you know if there's a similar trend of SRs for other players?

 

[TheJediBrah]

(i.e. the low SR in 05-06 corresponds with low average; fair to assume batting poorly?)

I love how the "low average"/"batted poorly" was averaging low 30s, which a lot of all-rounders would be very happy with

what a player

 

[Furball]

Oh god kiwiviktor was being serious.

 

[Smudge]

Why would we want Bevan consuming late innings deliveries when we have Anderson, Ronchi, Santner, Southee to hit out with?

 

[Spark]

Tim Southee, for real?