The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[AndyZaltzHair]

Brendon McCullum is in my signature. You should be over the moon.

 

[Red]

Yeah, a pivotal spot being taken by the player with the higher average, what a travesty

I wouldn't begrudge Captain Grumpy's right to choose who he wants in his team (Williamson is clearly a gun), but Viv's SR of over 90 in ODIs was insanely good for the era. It's ten runs per hundred balls more than Ponting's was in the modern era. Dean Jones, who was something of a contemporary of Viv's, and who was also an ODI gun in his time, had a SR of 72.

Viv, in the modern game, would've been completely and utterly destructive.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Hard to think of a comparable player in the modern game. Perhaps some sort of cross between AB de Villiers and Chris Gayle.

 

[watson]

I wouldn't begrudge Captain Grumpy's right to choose who he wants in his team (Williamson is clearly a gun), but Viv's SR of over 90 in ODIs was insanely good for the era. It's ten runs per hundred balls more than Ponting's was in the modern era. Dean Jones, who was something of a contemporary of Viv's, and who was also an ODI gun in his time, had a SR of 72.

Viv, in the modern game, would've been completely and utterly destructive.

There are only two batsman of note during the 1980s that had a SR greater than 90;

Viv Richards (1975 - 1991)
ODIs = 187
BF = 7451
Runs = 6721
Ave = 47.00
SR = 90.20

Kapil Dev (1978 - 1994)
ODIs = 225
BF = 3979
Runs = 3783
Ave = 23.79
SR = 95.07

If we just take the years 1980 - 1989 then Kapil Dev's SR for the entire decade is 101.91

Therefore, in terms of lower order hitting I don't think that there has been a greater batsman than Kapil Dev. His bowling figures also make him a top 10 bowler from the 1980s as well.

Wickets = 253
Ave = 27.45
SR = 44.2
ER = 3.71

Kapil Dev is a must at No.7 IMO

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

There are only two batsman of note during the 1980s that had a SR greater than 90;

Viv Richards (1975 - 1991)
ODIs = 187
BF = 7451
Runs = 6721
Ave = 47.00
SR = 90.20

Kapil Dev (1978 - 1994)
ODIs = 225
BF = 3979
Runs = 3783
Ave = 23.79
SR = 95.07

If we just take the years 1980 - 1989 then Kapil Dev's SR for the entire decade is 101.91

Therefore, in terms of lower order hitting I don't think that there has been a greater batsman than Kapil Dev. His bowling figures also make him a top 10 bowler from the 1980s as well.

Wickets = 253
Ave = 27.45
SR = 44.2
ER = 3.71

Kapil Dev is a must at No.7 IMO

I think 7 is too high for Dev in an ATG World XI.

It is because of his batting SR that you rightly acknowledge that I had him as a second choice breathing down C Cairns; kneck at 8, but his weaker batting average, less big innings and weaker bowling SR gave the nod to C Cairns for mine - I appreciate Dev's low economy rate - but he played in a much earlier era to most competing players. But yeah - I think he, Cairns, Faulkner, Afridi, Razzaq and Khan all make a good case to bat 8 (as does Flintoff for that matter) and be the fourth bowler.

Jimmy Faulkner is dripping in talent. If he realises his potential in the next few years, the issue could well be moot.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I wouldn't begrudge Captain Grumpy's right to choose who he wants in his team (Williamson is clearly a gun), but Viv's SR of over 90 in ODIs was insanely good for the era. It's ten runs per hundred balls more than Ponting's was in the modern era. Dean Jones, who was something of a contemporary of Viv's, and who was also an ODI gun in his time, had a SR of 72.

Viv, in the modern game, would've been completely and utterly destructive.

Thanks. I actually thought the strongest bone of contention was leaving the great Punter out (and then putting Sanga in a battle with Tendulkar to open) and picking Johnny come lately Williamson at #3, than not having Richards bat at 5 instead of 3. But I think I made it clear that I appreciate that Williamson, Kohli and even Shakib are far too new to be everyone's cup of tea, and they have to maintain their current playing records, not rely on what has been done so far.

 

[marc71178]

Yeah, a pivotal spot being taken by the player with the higher average, what a travesty

Oh do **** off.

He's not fit to lace the boots of the likes of Viv Richards, Ricky Ponting and Brian Lara to name only 3.

 

[harsh.ag]

Oh do **** off.

He's not fit to lace the boots of the likes of Viv Richards, Ricky Ponting and Brian Lara to name only 3.

That's Dwayne Leverock you're thinking of

 

[smash84]

Bond's SR and economy for era beats all comers in my opinion. He crushed and destroyed the best. His record against Australia during their unparalleled word champion reign is incredible.

Hadlee has Wasim on batting and bowling-economy - but you could argue a case for Wasim over Hadlee on pure bowling (and SR hitting). I would go Hadlee, but choose Wasim if you fancy. I think Wasim has more chance ousting Garner personally - but I concede debate on this point.

If he remains sober - Jimmy Faulkner from Australia could make this debate moot and force an allrounder into the #3 seamer spot. He is an incredible talent.

Bond is an awesome bowler in ODIs. Good luck having him on the park for 90% of the matches though.

Hadlee also pretty good but neither of them have the versatility, variety or longevity of Akram.

 

[honestbharani]

smali said Wasim and not Imran..

 

[CricAddict]

I'd argue that Viv should always be in everyone's first XI and I'd be 100% right!

I agree to this.Having Viv in second XI was a mistake. I admired Ponting in ODIs and wanted Viv as well. Also, have a belief that Kohli will overtake all records and own No 4 position when he retires. Hence, was confused. Viv for Kohli in First XI as of now and for Ponting later.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

smali said Wasim and not Imran..

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

 

[Anil]

ODI all-time:

sachin tendulkar
desmond haynes
vivian richards (c)
ricky ponting (vc)
michael bevan
adam gilchrist (wk)
richard hadlee
shane warne
glenn mcgrath
joel garner
muthiah muralitharan

 

[honestbharani]

remove Haynes, move Gilly up to open and put ABDV at 6. And replace McGrath with Wasim. That would be my ATG ODI XI in today's mood..

 

[watson]

01. Mark Waugh
02. Sachin Tendulkar
03. Brian Lara
04. Viv Richards
05. AB De Villiers
06. MS Dhoni
07. Kapil Dev
08. Shaun Pollock
09. Joel Garner
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Glenn McGrath

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Oh do **** off.

He's not fit to lace the boots of the likes of Viv Richards, Ricky Ponting and Brian Lara to name only 3.

Even Ricky Ponting's mum knows that Williamson is a better ODI bat than Ponting.

 

[JBMAC]

Even Ricky Ponting's mum knows that Williamson is a better ODI bat than Ponting.

There speaks a kiwi

 

[Flem274*]

grumpy stop

and comparing 25 year olds to retired players in any sense other than speculation is just stupid unless you're doing something like kohli v mike atherton in odis, where one is clearly ahead of the other.

this is something that annoys me about CW actually. whenever a 30 year old batsman or bowler peaks and goes mental the inevitable atg comparison threads are made and get "he's soooo much better" or "he's not fit to lace up >player< boots!"

 

[bagapath]

Roughly, these are my top three ODI teams.
Cant decide who will come out on top if they competed in a WSC kinda tournament.

Team 1

Tendulkar
Gilchrist (wk)
Ponting
Viv Richards *
AB De Villiers
Symonds
S. Pollock
Akram
Garner
Warne
McGrath

Team 2

M.Waugh
Amla
Kohli
Kallis
Hussey
Dhoni (wk) *
Klusener
Lee
Murali
Waqar
Donald

Team 3

Jayasuriya
Hayden
Sangakara (wk) *
Jones
Williamson
Bevan
Imran
Hadlee
Bracken
Saqlain
Bond

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

grumpy stop

No.

and comparing 25 year olds to retired players in any sense other than speculation is just stupid

Is this because people cannot play international cricket until they're 26 or older? What if the 25 year old, having broken the rules and played international cricket for 80 or so matches, retires through career ending injury at 25?

this is something that annoys me about CW actually. whenever a 30 year old batsman or bowler peaks and goes mental the inevitable atg comparison threads are made and get "he's soooo much better" or "he's not fit to lace up >player< boots!"

How many matches have they played at this point in time?

Flem stop. Just because someone is young enough that they're still playing and could tarnish their impressive record that they have built up, does not mean that the impressive record can be compared at a given point in time. Yes, a 25 year old may lose form and tarnish his career, it does not mean that he will. KW has played over 80 games and I freely acknowledge that his, Kohli's and Shakib's career could fail in the future; but you its not as thought I'm selecting Mustafizr in the team after 6 games. Hadlee played a mere 115 games in very long odi career, has he played enough games for you? Current players can play their way into a side, or out of the side, both their actual current teams and ATG sides as their career progresses. We all understand that by virtue of them being current players.