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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I don't really get sims. What do you run them thru?

Are they based just on averages? Cos it's fair enough when you think about it for what a sim is, but I'd always choose MWaugh over Hayden as an ODI opener in spite of the variance in their averages.
 
kiwiviktor81

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
Red Hill said:
I don't really get sims. What do you run them thru?

Are they based just on averages? Cos it's fair enough when you think about it for what a sim is, but I'd always choose MWaugh over Hayden as an ODI opener in spite of the variance in their averages.
Click to expand...
It's called ODI CricSim, and it runs in Flash ActionScript 3.0. It uses averages, strike rates and fours and sixes per thousand balls for the batsmen, and strike rates and economy rates for the bowlers. It runs ball by ball Monte Carlo simulations at around 15 matches per second.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
kiwiviktor81 said:
It's called ODI CricSim, and it runs in Flash ActionScript 3.0. It uses averages, strike rates and fours and sixes per thousand balls for the batsmen, and strike rates and economy rates for the bowlers. It runs ball by ball Monte Carlo simulations at around 15 matches per second.
Click to expand...
It does more than that doesn't it? Its uses the above for each and every ball, but then also uses the match situation doesn't it? It seemed like it. Wickets down - batsman score more slowly and vice versa. Furthermore, because if you pick a whole heap of very economical bowlers who do not take wickets in one team, they will end up with the economy rates destroyed against gun batting line ups. But you can choose one or maybe two of them to complement strike bowlers taking wickets.

I thought the simulator was pretty clever bar the fact it seemed to bowl the bowlers on a pre-set bowling order, and not with artificial intelligence of match scenario (a minor criticism). I'm not sure whether for simulation purposes how important a 6th bowler sharing the 5th bowlers overs would be. But it is an arbitrary bowling mechanism - or appeared to be.
 
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kiwiviktor81

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
Yeah at the moment there's no AI for the bowling order. Dan and I have been having a think about it and have a few ideas, but none of them seem very good. The best idea seems to be an if/then algorithm that calculates, for example, if the match state demands wickets and brings back the strike bowlers, or tries to strangle the scoring with spinners in the mid overs.

There is AI for the batting, and it's very good. Each batsman calculates resources to come and chooses a level of aggression that maximises the total runs scored by the end of the innings. So it's arguably much smarter than a real life batsman would be, which is interesting. It's very rare that a team scores a low score with many wickets remaining, for example.

I don't think 6th bowlers matter at all for simulation purposes. It's very rare that a 6th bowler bowls more than 3 overs anyway so it's generally safe to just leave them out entirely.

Edit: we've improved the simulator considerably in recent days. Now in series mode the simulator will calculate fair dollar values for gambling on the player to score a 50, to score a 100 or to topscore. Also we added South Africa to the ATG lineup (with NZ, Zimbabwe and West Indies). It also runs 40 times quicker in UltraTurbo mode.
 
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marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
CricAddict said:
Superb team. lacking good allrounders though. With Sir Hadlee at nine, the NZ team that this Aus team will take on has a deep line-up, apart from the teamwork and never-say-die attitude that a typical NZ team has.
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And with Corey Anderson bowling 10 overs the NZ bowling attack is lacking.
 
kiwiviktor81

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
CaptainGrumpy said:
Yeah, Crowe and probably Astle would do better on the sim ahead of him.
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I've found that in an ATG scenario, Anderson's low strike rate (even nerfed to 27 or so) is crucial for preventing the opposition having too many wickets in hand and starting the slog from the 35th over.
 
kiwiviktor81

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
marc71178 said:
And that says it all about why watching the game is so important rather than relying on statistics.
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Ironically it was my work with a simulator that convinced me to use my eye more. When you see that a batsman's average can easily vary by 5 runs from one block of 1,000 simulations to the next, it's clear that over the sample size of a career the average is actually pretty vague an indicator. Useful for putting batsmen in tiers perhaps but little else.
 
C

CaptainGrumpy

Banned
marc71178 said:
And that says it all about why watching the game is so important rather than relying on statistics.
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Yeah nah.

You probably could find a few examples to support your point, but its not Astle or Crowe vis a vis Anderson as a limited over or cricket bowler in general, especially more so given their respective red ball wicket taking ability to be combined with their limited overs economy.

I really like Corey Anderson as a limited over player for NZ, but his wickets are scoreboard pressure - just look at his red ball statistics. He is no Astle or Crowe on economy either.
 
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Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Flu ridden ODI ATG XIs

Australia

Gilchrist
M.Waugh
Ponting
Jones
Watson
Hussey
Symonds
Lee
Warne
Starc
McGrath

England

Trescothick
Knight
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Buttler
Botham
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Gough

West Indies

Haynes
Gayle
Richards
Lara
Lloyd
Hooper
Sammy
Dujon
Holding
Ambrose
Garner

Pakistan

Anwar
Afridi
Abbas
Miandad
Inzamam
Razzaq
Imran
Moin Khan
Wasim
Saqlain
Waqar

India

Tendulkar
Ganguly
Dravid
Kohli
Azharrudin
Dhoni
Kapil
Agarkar
Kumble
Z.Khan
Srinath

Sri Lanka

Jayasuriya
Dilshan
Sangakkara
Jayawardene
DeSilva
Ranatunga
Matthews
Vaas
Kulasekara
Murali
Malinga

South Africa

Smith
Gibbs
Kirsten
Kallis
DeVilliers
Rhodes
Klusener
Pollock
Boje
Morkel
Donald
 
CricAddict

CricAddict

International Coach
Red Hill said:
Flu ridden ODI ATG XIs

India

Tendulkar
Ganguly
Dravid
Kohli
Azharrudin
Dhoni
Kapil
Agarkar
Kumble
Z.Khan
Srinath
Click to expand...
I will bring in Yuvraj for Azhar. Need more aggression and a part-time spin option. Can have Raina in reserve. Rest all good.
 
kiwiviktor81

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
Red Hill said:
Flu ridden ODI ATG XIs

Australia

Gilchrist
M.Waugh
Ponting
Jones
Watson
Hussey
Symonds
Lee
Warne
Starc
McGrath

England

Trescothick
Knight
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Buttler
Botham
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Gough

West Indies

Haynes
Gayle
Richards
Lara
Lloyd
Hooper
Sammy
Dujon
Holding
Ambrose
Garner

Pakistan

Anwar
Afridi
Abbas
Miandad
Inzamam
Razzaq
Imran
Moin Khan
Wasim
Saqlain
Waqar

India

Tendulkar
Ganguly
Dravid
Kohli
Azharrudin
Dhoni
Kapil
Agarkar
Kumble
Z.Khan
Srinath

Sri Lanka

Jayasuriya
Dilshan
Sangakkara
Jayawardene
DeSilva
Ranatunga
Matthews
Vaas
Kulasekara
Murali
Malinga

South Africa

Smith
Gibbs
Kirsten
Kallis
DeVilliers
Rhodes
Klusener
Pollock
Boje
Morkel
Donald
Click to expand...
Do you mind if I put all of these teams in my simulator as the ATG presets?
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Would say though, you could probably make any of those teams statistically stronger, but I've picked what I think would win actual matches.
 
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