***Official*** New Zealand in Zimbabwe and South Africa 2015

[Hurricane]

Burn the witch.

 

[Hurricane]

I am switching Camps. Taylor should be dropped and Worker or Munro should bat 4 next game.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I don't think its a crisis or a terrible thing to be honest. While I always want to see NZ win, this gives the boys a kick up the backside before playing South Africa and to treat Zimbabwe with a bit more respect for the rest of this series.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I am switching Camps. Taylor should be dropped and Worker or Munro should bat 4 next game.

Noone is saying that at all. With all due respect - that is not even accurate enough to be a straw man.

Taylor is the best man for the role. But he can do better. His last 100 is not to be celebrated. It was not a good 100. The first 92 balls were wasted at a scoring rate of 58.

 

[Flem274*]

In the next game I would like to see the bowlers take some wickets.

Needs more Central Districts players.

Wheeler, Henry, Milne, Worker, Neesham

What a team.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I was miffed that Milne didn't play last night.

 

[Bahnz]

I think some of us are getting a little bit pissed off because...

Introducing the Ross Taylor Performance Guide

Situation A: Gone for single digits

Did we win?

Yes - we won in spite of Ross Taylor
No - it's Ross Taylor's fault

Situation B: Gone for a 20-49 score

Did we win?

Yes - we won in spite of Ross Taylor
No - it's Ross Taylor's fault because he didn't convert his start

Situation C: Ross Taylor makes 50-99

Did we win?

Yes - we won in spite of Ross Taylor throwing away a ton
No - It's Ross Taylor's fault. He should have been there at the end.

Situation D: Ross Taylor scores a hundred

Did we win?

Yes - Ross Taylor cut it fine but it was a good innings. BUT if Kane Williamson or Brendon McCullum make 50+ in the same game, it's their victory
No - It's Ross Taylor's fault. He should have scored a bigger/faster hundred

Then there's the how did he bat and get out bonus level

Did Ross Taylor bat slowly?

Yes.

Should have batted faster

Did Ross Taylor bat fast?

Yes

Shouldn't have been so irresponsible. He could have batted through the innings and set the game up with a hundred.

Did Ross Taylor get out to an onside shot?

Yes

He should stop slogging

Did Ross Taylor get out to an offside shot?

Yes

His test game is affecting his ODI batting. He needs to slog more.

You can then take this basic model and give it context like

Did New Zealand score a lot of runs?

Yes

Did Ross Taylor score a lot of runs?

Yes

Did New Zealand take any wickets?

No.

Did we win?

No.

It's Ross Taylor's fault.

Did the batsmen score any runs?

No.

Did Taylor?

Some, but he holed out going for it

Did we win?

No.

It's Ross Taylor's fault. He should have batted long.

Moral of the story? It's always Ross Taylor's fault.

Quit stalking Blocky Flem.

 

[NZTailender]

Your reply to CG's post implied he was exclusively blaming Taylor for the loss & that just wasn't the case. He did in fact raise a perfectly legitimate point about Taylor's SR in the middle, which was a paltry 60 between overs 15-35 (when both batsmen were set). So I didn't need a lot of imagination tbf.

Reply after someones post ≠ replying to their post only.

He did raise a legitimate point but I think the fact that Taylor eventually caught up evened things out a bit. Could we have scored 10-30 more? Sure. Is that Taylor's fault/should Taylor have made those runs? No, the only faultless person in our innings IMHO was Elliott.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Reply after someones post ≠ replying to their post only.

He did raise a legitimate point but I think the fact that Taylor eventually caught up evened things out a bit. Could we have scored 10-30 more? Sure. Is that Taylor's fault/should Taylor have made those runs? No, the only faultless person in our innings IMHO was Elliott.

Should Taylor have scored 122 or 142 runs off 122 balls on that pitch? Yes.

Should Ronchi have been promoted ahead of Neesham? Yes.

Did Guptill and Latham have the wrong mind set for opening in an ODI game? Yes. I think more Guptill here, he is the stroke maker and the senior ODI opener and thus needs to stand up in BMac's absence. Latham started well in a third man kind of way then put on the brakes.

 

[Zinzan]

I am switching Camps. Taylor should be dropped and Worker or Munro should bat 4 next game.

Lol, gotta love the extremities of reaction. Legitimate questions asked about Taylor's SR of 60 in that 15-35 over phase and suddenly it's WW3 and we all want Taylor dropped, hung, skinned alive etc

Can't we look at this in a measured way? The guy scored a fine hundred, but could have been more proactive with his scoring in the middles overs.

 

[Bahnz]

I am switching Camps. Taylor should be dropped and Worker or Munro should bat 4 next game.

Finally someone gets where I'm coming from.

 

[Hurricane]

I don't think its a crisis or a terrible thing to be honest. While I always want to see NZ win, this gives the boys a kick up the backside before playing South Africa and to treat Zimbabwe with a bit more respect for the rest of this series.

Good grief. Perhaps it is because he respected Zimbos that he didn't throw his wicket away.

Ross batted as fast as he is humanly capable of without risking his wicket last night. He can bat faster and would have had we been batting 2nd and chasing 380. The faster batting version of Ross basically involves him doing hoiks to midwicket. Which would have got him castrated around here had one of them not come off. But he doesn't care about people's opinions he would have done mid wicket hoiks anyway because hey we needed 380 to win.

Ross in 2015 is not executing his shots as he once used to. Perhaps his long test match innings a few years ago rubbed off on him who knows, but he has lost some of his scoring ability and his SR has suffered. People are right it is just not this game.
Yes KW batted faster than him. KW is one of the better players NZ has every produced and may surpass Martin Crowe by the end of his career. Maybe shock horror KW is just better at the moment.
Ross gave it 100% and it wasn't through lack of effort of lack of respect for Zimbos that he didn't score faster.

He scored a century last night. How many Martin Guptil score. How many did Tom Latham score. They didn't get centuries. Ross is a damn good batsman. And to quote DingDong he tried his best out there. He didn't have another gear he can go into in those conditions.

Devcich makes a 30 last night if he plays. Brownlie scores a 40 at most. Worker would not have made 50. I thought Zimbos bowled decently.

Tl;dr Telling him to simply bat faster is unrealistic - if he frustrates you that much then lobby for him to be dropped altogether then at least you have a linear argument and you are being upfront about your agenda.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Finally someone gets where I'm coming from.

Haha.

Brilliant reply Bahnz.

 

[NZTailender]

Should Taylor have scored 122 or 142 runs off 122 balls on that pitch? Yes.

I have no comeback other than he should've really scored 200* (100) and Kane 300* (164)

 

[Flem274*]

i still think we should take more wickets. henry, wheeler and milne are the strikiest strike bowlers we have on tour. if zimbabwe keep scoring 300 then we pretend this tour never happened ok.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Good grief. Perhaps it is because he respected Zimbos that he didn't throw his wicket away.

Ross batted as fast as he is humanly capable of without risking his wicket last night. He can bat faster and would have had we been batting 2nd and chasing 380. The faster batting version of Ross basically involves him doing hoiks to midwicket. Which would have got him castrated around here had one of them not come off. But he doesn't care about people's opinions he would have done mid wicket hoiks anyway because hey we needed 380 to win.

Ross in 2015 is not executing his shots as he once used to. Perhaps his long test match innings a few years ago rubbed off on him who knows, but he has lost some of his scoring ability and his SR has suffered. People are right it is just not this game.
Yes KW batted faster than him. KW is one of the better players NZ has every produced and may surpass Martin Crowe by the end of his career. Maybe shock horror KW is just better at the moment.
Ross gave it 100% and it wasn't through lack of effort of lack of respect for Zimbos that he didn't score faster.

He scored a century last night. How many Martin Guptil score. How many did Tom Latham score. They didn't get centuries. Ross is a damn good batsman. And to quote DingDong he tried his best out there. He didn't have another gear he can go into in those conditions.

Devcich makes a 30 last night if he plays. Brownlie scores a 40 at most. Worker would not have made 50. I thought Zimbos bowled decently.

Tl;dr Telling him to simply bat faster is unrealistic - if he frustrates you that much then lobby for him to be dropped altogether then at least you have a linear argument and you are being upfront about your agenda.

Noone is impressed with Guppie or Latham either 'Cane from yesterday's match. There is no point in comparing Ross to Devecich or Worker as we expect more from Ross as a premier batsman than what he delivered last night. Noone is suggesting to drop him - which is what you seem to be defending him from.

Also with due respect, point of order, while I disagree with the comparison, but if Worker makes that 49 off 29, Ronchi makes 50 off 30, we're in a better position of course, with NMac contributing a run a ball 30. Henry can tonk too. Saving wickets and having icing in the shed that never bat is counter intuitive in limited over cricket. Again, I am not suggesting to drop Ross for Worker, just disagreeing with our respective understanding of limited overs cricket.

Ross Taylor has immense talent. He can and will do better. On that we can all agree on.

 

[Hurricane]

Stick a fork in this thread for tonight.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Disagree, from what I saw I honestly think par was somewhere between 300 than 350 on that wicket. 320-330. I can't comment on the Indian game played on the same wicket, only the one I saw last night.

You were clearly watching a different New Zealand innings to me. If Mpofu hadn't delivered so many wide half trackers then we wouldn't have got anywhere near 300. The pace wasn't true and it made hitting through the line extremely tricky.

 

[Zinzan]

You were clearly watching a different New Zealand innings to me. If Mpofu hadn't delivered so many wide half trackers then we wouldn't have got anywhere near 300.

Clearly so. I thought it looked pretty flat, it not a little slow, with an incredibly quick outfield. I felt we were around 20-30 runs short at the break and which proved about to be about right in the end. No disrespect to Ervine, as he played very well, but a really strong batting side may have won with 5+ overs to spare.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Clearly so. I thought it looked pretty flat, it not a little slow, with an incredibly quick outfield. I felt we were around 20-30 runs short at the break and which proved about to be about right in the end. No disrespect to Ervine, as he played very well, but a really strong batting side may have won with 5+ overs to spare.

You actually referred to Ross Taylor as Trevor Franklin like at one point, such was your frustration with his first 90 balls. That was before Zimbabwe batted.