Any updates on NZ's tour of Oz later this year?

[Hurricane]

He has John Bracewell equalled already doesn't he? Striking wickets at 67 and 4 per test, as against Bracewell 2.5 per test at 82.3 strike rate. The issue is economy where Bracewell has him beat hands down. But Craig is doubling Bracewell's output with the bat. I imagine that Craig just needs to tighten up the free hits.

3 of Bracewell's final four years were shocking in terms of bowling average. Did he forget his craft instead of applying learned knowledge?

Haha he probably mellowed and stopped sledging as much. Steve Waugh is quite damning in his description of Bracewell.

Still for my money - excluding your claiming of Grimmet - Bracewell is our 2nd best spinner of all time IMHO.

 

[Gob]

Is this a trick question?
Out of 22 players he's the only one worthy of a perfect 10.

well tony its a **** way of looking at things. I always felt that a win means so much when the opposition got their best players on the park. not much thrill in beating South Africa with out Dale Steyn in it. same with Anderson and England. I support Estraya in cricket and jimmy breaking his arm would improve Aust chances of winning by greatly deal. Do i want that to happen? No ****en way

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Still for my money - excluding your claiming of Grimmet - Bracewell is our 2nd best spinner of all time IMHO.

Who's better than Grimmett? Ha.

What did Steve Waugh describe of Bracewell?

 

[Hurricane]

Where I Could go up in the ratings is BJ, even his glove work looked cleaner than Ronchi's.

Grumpy's assessment of Craig basically is one I have no issue with, too many pies at the moment, that hurts him both as a wicket taking option and also just as an option to tie up an end for an hour in the hot baking sun.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Where I Could go up in the ratings is BJ, even his glove work looked cleaner than Ronchi's.

Grumpy's assessment of Craig basically is one I have no issue with, too many pies at the moment, that hurts him both as a wicket taking option and also just as an option to tie up an end for an hour in the hot baking sun.

He is a genuine wicket taking option striking at 67. He just needs to bowl tighter in the first innings when the pitch is not responsive. He is there for the opposing teams second innings to win the game. 4 wickets per test for a spinner is pretty darn good. 3.65 runs per over in the first innings needs to be trimmed down a lot.

Its about knowing their roles to play to enhance team success.

 

[Hurricane]

Who's better than Grimmett? Ha.

What did Steve Waugh describe of Bracewell?

I just mean you can't claim him in the NZ pecking order.

Steve Waugh on Bracewell says the following:

New Zealand in the 80s were a real challenge to play against. They had Hadlee, Chatfield (the human bowling machine), Danny Morrison, and John Bracewell.
And at that age I just wasn't ready for Bracewell. The things he said to me were too much. He went up one side of me and down the other relentlessly.

That was the gist of it. I thought it was a bit rich for him in particular to complain about sledging but there you go. It was his book and he is entitled to say what he likes in it I suppose.

 

[Zinzan]

Haha he probably mellowed and stopped sledging as much. Steve Waugh is quite damning in his description of Bracewell.

Still for my money - excluding your claiming of Grimmet - Bracewell is our 2nd best spinner of all time IMHO.

It's interesting many of the old timers like my uncle, who started watching in the mids 60s would say all of Headley Howarth, Jack Alabaster & even Stephen Boock were all better spinners than Bracewell, although he had the edge on them with the bat.

I've had many an argument with him making the case for Braces.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I just mean you can't claim him in the NZ pecking order.

Steve Waugh on Bracewell says the following:



That was the gist of it. I thought it was a bit rich for him in particular to complain about sledging but there you go. It was his book and he is entitled to say what he likes in it I suppose.

I wish he had given specifics.

 

[Zinzan]

That was the gist of it. I thought it was a bit rich for him in particular to complain about sledging but there you go. It was his book and he is entitled to say what he likes in it I suppose.

Great quote that, perhaps Bracewell gave Waugh his first taste of 'mental disintegration' as the latter once described it.

 

[Hurricane]

It's interesting many of the old timers like my uncle, who started watching in the mids 60s would say all of Headley Howarth, Jack Alabaster & even Stephen Boock were all better spinners than Bracewell, although he had the edge on them with the bat.

I've had many an argument with him making the case for Braces.

Well good on you for fighting the good fight.

I can't really comment on Headley howarth or Jack Alabaster but iirc they didn't get 100 wickets.

Stephen Boock never impressed me. His flight was unimpressive, his turn was Vettori-like-and he had little or no guile. What he did have was uncanny accuracy. His first over in test cricket was a maiden if I recall that moment correctly as I would have been a youngster at the time. After bowling 3 or 4 maidens on the go to the batsman who was probably Boycott or some big name, the batsman figured out that Stephen was smoke and mirrors and promptly hit one of the many deliveries he had been defending previously through the covers for four. The moment was so decisive that the commentators just said "well.".
After that he got milked for the rest of the day.
I will cricinfo his numbers later and I have never looked at them before but I am willing to wager he has a good economy rate but an average number of wickets.

My personal hope at the time was for Stuart Duff to make the team.

The way that Bracewell gripped the ball was similar to Sehwag in that he used his thumb and would impart an element of side spin on the ball. If you try this in the nets you will find that you maximise your drift. I tend to have different variations. My Bracewell delivery vs my Dipak Patel top spinner.

 

[Skyliner]

well tony its a **** way of looking at things. I always felt that a win means so much when the opposition got their best players on the park. not much thrill in beating South Africa with out Dale Steyn in it. same with Anderson and England. I support Estraya in cricket and jimmy breaking his arm would improve Aust chances of winning by greatly deal. Do i want that to happen? No ****en way

As soon as Clarke retires he ceases to be one of their best players. I'm not praying he suffers a career ending injury, I'm saying it's very likely.
I'm being a realist.
Would I like us to win a series against an Aussie side including Michael Clarke? Hell yes.
But do I believe us winning becomes more likely if he's not there? Hell yes.

Whichever 11 Aussies take the field, they are expected to win and win well, regardless of who may have retired, be injured, or whatever.

But to take your point, if one of our best players was out injured we wouldn't get any sympathy or acknowledgement from Australia. Whichever 11 players we put out are interchangeable cannon fodder to them.

 

[Flem274*]

I take it as a negative about his bowling that he said his best spell in the UAE came about because he didn't care and wasn't putting any thought into his deliveries. Apparently the more he thinks about it the moment the worse he gets, which speaks to the learning cycle is he on at the moment.

Nah I get what Craig means. Overanalysis is the death of feeling natural when you're playing sport. Plans are good, but when you're struggling and you need to perform right now (not in two months, but now) then there are two surefire remedies

a) coach takes you out the back and works on a small problem with a simple solution with you, giving you confidence which then feeds into the rest of your game
b) stop thinking, and just do what feels right in the moment. When you do this and see instant improvement you settle and get a roll on, and you can reintroduce thinking when you're up and running.

Craig took option B and it worked. He was able to quiet his mind, relax and he would have flowed better as a result.

 

[Skyliner]

I remember that 2001 series against Australia we drew 0 - 0.
This is our side with Fleming, Astle, Vettori, MacMillan, Parore, Cairns, Richardson - beating England in England in 1999 is in the recent past.
McMillan was finishing up the Perth test by comically running in to bowl flapping his arms - as Gillespie had done when Astle and Parore were batting - and Bill Lawry was laughing and saying "everyone said this NZ side were as weak as water, but they've actually been pretty strong" or words to that effect. The 'weak as water' phrase stuck with me. Even when we have a decent side they don't rate us.

 

[Hurricane]

I remember that 2001 series against Australia we drew 0 - 0.
This is our side with Fleming, Astle, Vettori, MacMillan, Parore, Cairns, Richardson - beating England in England in 1999 is in the recent past.
McMillan was finishing up the Perth test by comically running in to bowl flapping his arms - as Gillespie had done when Astle and Parore were batting - and Bill Lawry was laughing and saying "everyone said this NZ side were as weak as water, but they've actually been pretty strong" or words to that effect. The 'weak as water' phrase stuck with me. Even when we have a decent side they don't rate us.

Good lord. You have hit on every insecurity I have. My sole motivation for winning this series is to listen to Mark Nicholaus try to make excuses for the Australians.

"Today it is day four at the mightiest of all grounds in the world, even better than Lords and Headingly, the GABBA. New Zealand have secured a handy lead in this game but can the plucky Australians fight back".

Each word will be like Gold to me if we manage to get on top.

 

[hendrix]

Good lord. You have hit on every insecurity I have. My sole motivation for winning this series is to listen to Mark Nicholaus try to make excuses for the Australians.

"Today it is day four at the mightiest of all grounds in the world, even better than Lords and Headingly, the GABBA. New Zealand have secured a handy lead in this game but can the plucky Australians fight back".

Each word will be like Gold to me if we manage to get on top.

haha yeah, we will need Bill Lawry or even (surprisingly enough) Michael Slater to temper him.

 

[Skyliner]

Mark Nicholaus:
"Today it is day four at the mightiest of all grounds in the world, even better than Lords and Headingly; the GABBA. New Zealand have secured an unlikely lead in this game but we all sense that the plucky Australians will fight back".

 

[Flem274*]

It's not Nicholas I want. He's a little fish.

I want Ian Chappell.

 

[Flem274*]

"hurrr hur sledging is best hurrr pace hurrr hurr captain must bat #3 huur ddurrr"

*BJ Watling with his tongue lolling like a labrador back foot punches the winning runs then smiles like a kid at Christmas at all the Australians*

 

[Hurricane]

Like it Skyliner

Ian Chapple
Day 1
"This Kane Williams chap can actually play a bit. He and he alone on the blackcaps is ok in my book."
Day 2
"And of course we all knew that Ross Taylor might be able to show some ability"


Day 3 second test
"This new zealand side is actually a decent and developing and up and coming side".

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

"hurrr hur sledging is best hurrr pace hurrr hurr captain must bat #3 huur ddurrr"

*BJ Watling with his tongue lolling like a labrador back foot punches the winning runs then smiles like a kid at Christmas at all the Australians*

Wait, your dream win is that we bat twice?

Mine is "Welcome back to the GABBA on day 4 and we can tell you that Brendon McCullum has asked Australia to bat again. We cross now to the commentary box where Ian Chappell has ideas on how the Australian batsmen need to counter Boult's swing"