Any updates on NZ's tour of Oz later this year?

[CaptainGrumpy]

When he chucked.

He used to be a very good "bowler" and use to give it a real rip. Now not so much. Please stop looking at his total career stats. At least in one post you did make reference to his stats post chucking.

He is not the same bowler any more.

3/22 post re-modelled action. If stats suggest anything, its that he is a better bowler.

 

[Hurricane]

That 38 and 39 were good innings.

The 39 in particular was scored against Narine firing on all cylinders including his now illegal deliveries.

Anything over 20 isn't a failure. Anything above 30 is half way decent. 50 is good. 100 is excellent.

He needs to learn to cash in.

 

[Hurricane]

That 38 and 39 were good innings.

The 39 in particular was scored against Narine firing on all cylinders including his now illegal deliveries.

Anything over 20 isn't a failure. Anything above 30 is half way decent. 50 is good. 100 is excellent.

He needs to learn to cash in.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

That 38 and 39 were good innings.

The 39 in particular was scored against Narine firing on all cylinders including his now illegal deliveries.

Anything over 20 isn't a failure. Anything above 30 is half way decent. 50 is good. 100 is excellent.

He needs to learn to cash in.

Of course scores in the 20's are failures. If they weren't - Brownlie would not have been dropped. Corey bats 6 - he should be aiming for an average of 40-50 as a test #6. Any score below 50 should disappoint him and you. He at 6 as a batting allrounder, except his bowling in tests is not of batting all rounder quality and his batting is woeful.

 

[Hurricane]

Of course scores in the 20's are failures. If they weren't - Brownlie would not have been dropped. Corey bats 6 - he should be aiming for an average of 40-50 as a test #6. Any score below 50 should disappoint him and you. He at 6 as a batting allrounder, except his bowling in tests is not of batting all rounder quality and his batting is woeful.

FFS - I am pulling out of the debate now. This sounds like a N00b comment. A New Zealand batsman averaging 40-50 would be close to making it into our top 20 players of all time. Stephen Fleming only averaged 40.
Now I do note you italicised the word aimed - I don't know what you mean by that - that is actually ok if he averages 31 as long as he sets his sights high? Even aiming for 40-50 is an unrealistic goal. If he can average 35 I will be well pleased. What's Brendon's average anyway.

 

[hendrix]

Well with a declining test batting batting average of 31 where his only runs have been against Bangladesh, or cheap runs in a loss, or cheap runs after McCullum double tons.

Are you going to apply the same argument to Neesham?

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

FFS - I am pulling out of the debate now. This sounds like a N00b comment.

That seems awfully immature.

A New Zealand batsman averaging 40-50 would be close to making it into our top 20 players of all time. Stephen Fleming only averaged 40.

Stephen Flemming underachieved with the bat which he freely admits. 9 hundreds from 111 matches. If Corey was to average 40, I doubt we would be having this debate so rigorously. Flemming had more batting talent than Corey Anderson, that you must agree. That was displayed by his FC batting average of 44. I am not sure what more can be achieved with the bat by Corey - his FC numbers are hardly promising at 35. He is hardly displaying talent at the crease in whites.

Now I do note you italicised the word aimed - I don't know what you mean by that - that is actually ok if he averages 31 as long as he sets his sights high? Even aiming for 40-50 is an unrealistic goal.

No, its not. It is what all the top 6 batsman should be aiming for. Except maybe Kane, he could aim to average 55-60. I think we all expect (or anticipate) his average to go past 50 in the next few years.

If he can average 35 I will be well pleased. What's Brendon's average anyway.

44 as a batsman. Is Corey going to wicket keep? Not sure he could displace Watling for that job on the batting front. Let alone if he could actually wicket keep.

The guy's bowling is not developing. Its regressing. So one can only imagine that Corey sees his future as a batsman who only bowls a little or in ODIs.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Are you going to apply the same argument to Neesham?

As opposed to Brownlie? Yes. Neesham needs to promise more runs than Brownlie or another bat heading into a test series.

But Neesh has scored hard runs and gone big. Neesh's bowling is not all at sea with the red ball. Neesh has far better claim to being an allrounder in red ball cricket than Corey. He also seems to show far more promise with the bat at test level. I have Neesh ahead of Corey as a red ball allrounder, batsman, and bowler.

I rate Corey Anderson incredibly highly in ODI cricket. He is a reason we have our best ODI team. But for test cricket, I see a sloggy bat who offers less than Munro let alone Brownlie as well offering next to nothing with the ball.

 

[Skyliner]

New discussion:

Can New Zealand actually win? Or more precisely what odds would you give them of winning the series?

I would give them about a 10% chance. If we can't win in England against England we certainly can't win in Australia against Australia. But I could see a drawn series on the cards.
I guess the ultimate thing in our favour is that it is a 3 match series. We seem to be worse starters that pea soup and get better as series go on.

I would be happy to see a 1-1 result. But I am convinced we will lose the first test and will do well to even it after that.

I'm going to give NZ a 51% of winning the series against Australia.
I reckon we were coming home with a wet sail against the Poms and were denied a deciding test - we would have won that series.
We lost the first test with key players who had no decent prep after turning up cold from the IPL, and we still dominated most of that test.
I reckon we will be primed and ready come the Aus series, this is very much a career defining series, our players have been sledged by Aus during and since the WC final and will be steeled for battle. Playing Aus is our Ashes, by rights we should never get near them but I rate our players. I reckon we can get stuck in and really give it to these Aussies. If our boys get a sniff then I think they will take the Aussies down,
I really rate our key players. I expect Boult to be devastating. I expect Kane to dominate. I think Ross is getting closer to his form of old. We have great memories from Hobart. The players involved in that test will be desperate to experience that feeling again.
I expect some of the aging Aussie players to be crocked completely by this Ashes tour. Clarkes back was f'ed after the last Ashes tour...its 5 tests plus the first class matches. Then they are over in Bangladesh. Hardly good prep for their home pitches.

Why not have a bit of confidence. I feel the universe is on our side. The hubristic Aussies deserve to get their just deserts.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm going to give NZ a 51% of winning the series against Australia.
I reckon we were coming home with a wet sail against the Poms and were denied a deciding test - we would have won that series.
We lost the first test with key players who had no decent prep after turning up cold from the IPL, and we still dominated most of that test.
I reckon we will be primed and ready come the Aus series, this is very much a career defining series, our players have been sledged by Aus during and since the WC final and will be steeled for battle. Playing Aus is our Ashes, by rights we should never get near them but I rate our players. I reckon we can get stuck in and really give it to these Aussies. If our boys get a sniff then I think they will take the Aussies down,
I really rate our key players. I expect Boult to be devastating. I expect Kane to dominate. I think Ross is getting closer to his form of old. We have great memories from Hobart. The players involved in that test will be desperate to experience that feeling again.
I expect some of the aging Aussie players to be crocked completely by this Ashes tour. Clarkes back was f'ed after the last Ashes tour...its 5 tests plus the first class matches. Then they are over in Bangladesh. Hardly good prep for their home pitches.

Why not have a bit of confidence. I feel the universe is on our side. The hubristic Aussies deserve to get their just deserts.

I like any post which makes use of the word hubris and Australians in it. Will respond in due course.

 

[Skyliner]

Moreover, I will be at the Gabba test for all 5 days.
If we win, it will be the pinnacle of my live sport watching life. Nothing will come close. Defeating Australia and watching them get beaten and watching their supporters beaten faces & seeing our players and supporters reactions - this will trigger wild and euphoric celebrations, a huge dose of serotonin will wash over my synapses. I will be in sporting Nirvana.
Therefore I am going to be extremely positive. I am going to believe that the planets are aligning for the 30th anniversary of Australia's crushing '85 defeat.

 

[Zinzan]

I think Corey is a far superior batting prospect than Oram ever was in red ball stuff. It's #6 FFS. They aren't in the team to score difficult runs.

I'm not so sure about that Athers, and if so, only because Oram got the yips with the bat later in his career. However It's easy to forget he scored some classy test hundreds and averaged north of 40 for much of his test career; including a magnificent 126* vs. Aust in Brisbane in 04 (against McGrath, Gillespie, Kaspa & Warne), 2 tons vs. SA, both home and away (no mean feat vs their attack) and a ton vs. a strong English attack at Lords in '08.

Once Corey starts tonning-up against some of the best attacks in the world, home and away, we'll talk.

 

[Skyliner]

I'm not so sure about that Athers, and if so, only because Oram got the yips with the bat later in his career. However It's easy to forget he scored some classy test hundreds and averaged north of 40 for much of his test career; including a magnificent 126* vs. Aust in Brisbane in 04 (against McGrath, Gillespie, Kaspa & Warne), 2 tons vs. SA, both home and away (no mean feat vs their attack) and a ton vs. a strong English attack at Lords in '08.

Once Corey starts tonning-up against some of the best attacks in the world, home and away, we'll talk.

Yeah, Jake came up with some classics, that hundred in Brisbane was sensational, I remember one in SA when it was him and Vettori against the world - stayed up half the night watching it, as buzzy as Parore and Astle's partnership in Perth test I watched every ball of. Just 2 guys forging a pact to blunt an attack come what may. Also a 99 against Pak has stayed in my memory.

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah, was 97 vs. Pakistan if my memory serves.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm going to give NZ a 51% of winning the series against Australia.
I reckon we were coming home with a wet sail against the Poms and were denied a deciding test - we would have won that series.
We lost the first test with key players who had no decent prep after turning up cold from the IPL, and we still dominated most of that test.
I reckon we will be primed and ready come the Aus series, this is very much a career defining series, our players have been sledged by Aus during and since the WC final and will be steeled for battle. Playing Aus is our Ashes, by rights we should never get near them but I rate our players. I reckon we can get stuck in and really give it to these Aussies. If our boys get a sniff then I think they will take the Aussies down,
I really rate our key players. I expect Boult to be devastating. I expect Kane to dominate. I think Ross is getting closer to his form of old. We have great memories from Hobart. The players involved in that test will be desperate to experience that feeling again.
I expect some of the aging Aussie players to be crocked completely by this Ashes tour. Clarkes back was f'ed after the last Ashes tour...its 5 tests plus the first class matches. Then they are over in Bangladesh. Hardly good prep for their home pitches.

Why not have a bit of confidence. I feel the universe is on our side. The hubristic Aussies deserve to get their just deserts.

These are the plans I would like to see.

David Warner - Pick Matt Henry as the third seamer will be part of the plan - as Wagner is a bit inaccurate. Have all 3 seamers bowl every fricking delivery at his off stump until he implodes out of boredom.

Chris Rogers - Trent Boult to take accountability for dismissing him. Nick him out.

Voges whoever bats 3 - no idea

Smith - trent boult and Corey Anderson to bowl inswingers from left arm over at his middle stump and watch him ineptly defend them all until he misses one.

Clarke - Pray before the match that he decides to not bat like a demi god. Bowl off cutters and hope he chops one on.

Watson - just any delivery will be fine, he will hopefully get himself out.

Haddin - We know him

The bowlers - just fast and quick at their stumps.

My suggestion of Milne notwithstanding, I don't see us winning at the WACA - home field advantage and knowing the conditions is very important there.

I also worry about the first test.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I think Corey is a far superior batting prospect than Oram ever was in red ball stuff. It's #6 FFS. They aren't in the team to score difficult runs.

If Corey could bowl at 26 in FC and 33 in test, you may have some sort of comparison. But he's not even batting at Oram's at test level thus far, let alone bowling at it.

Oram spent most his career as the third seamer, and batting 7 (just ahead of batting 6 mind you). His bowling was far superior with a bowling average of 33 to Corey's and he was selected to bowl a lot more than Corey.

His batting was also better at test level. So the two are incomparable in batting and bowling.

Would I still press for 6 batsman ahead of Oram doing Corey's "role"? Yes, unless Jacob offered the same with the bat as the next available batsman. But Jacob was a fairer bowling option with the red ball due to economy and bowling average. Corey is not.

 

[Skyliner]

These are the plans I would like to see.

David Warner - Pick Matt Henry as the third seamer will be part of the plan - as Wagner is a bit inaccurate. Have all 3 seamers bowl every fricking delivery at his off stump until he implodes out of boredom.

Chris Rogers - Trent Boult to take accountability for dismissing him. Nick him out.

Voges whoever bats 3 - no idea

Smith - trent boult and Corey Anderson to bowl inswingers from left arm over at his middle stump and watch him ineptly defend them all until he misses one.

Clarke - Pray before the match that he decides to not bat like a demi god. Bowl off cutters and hope he chops one on.

Watson - just any delivery will be fine, he will hopefully get himself out.

Haddin - We know him

The bowlers - just fast and quick at their stumps.

My suggestion of Milne notwithstanding, I don't see us winning at the WACA - home field advantage and knowing the conditions is very important there.

I also worry about the first test.

I believe there will be extensive and absolutely meticulous planning by NZ team. This series has been on their radar for a long time. England is another stepping stone in the learning curve. The Aussies will want to absolutely dominate against us - talking batting here - which can play into our hands.

 

[Skyliner]

The fierce selection debate just shows that we do have a lot of players in contention, a lot of potential permutations and formulas for success.
Its a very healthy state that NC cricket finds itself in, and as long as our bona fide stars go into the series fit and firing on all cylinders, I have full confidence that the supporting cast will give a very good account of themselves.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I believe there will be extensive and absolutely meticulous planning by NZ team. This series has been on their radar for a long time. England is another stepping stone in the learning curve. The Aussies will want to absolutely dominate against us - talking batting here - which can play into our hands.

Warner, Smith and Clarke are the only batsmen we can be sure they will throw at us.

Rogers and Haddin should be retired at the conclusion of the Ashes, shouldn't they? Even if Haddin isn't retired, bar the Ashes in 2013/14 he has been ordinary with the bat for a few years now.

Voges may secure his spot, he may not. Watson may survive the Ashes, it may be MMarsh (who really does not look like much of a threat at all with the bat or the ball). May be someone new altogether.

Chances are, we will face the rebuilding Australian team batting line up with a new opener and a new keeper bat. Not to mention what goes on with the middle order. Its actually a good time to play Australia to be in it to win it. Of course, Clarke, Warner and Smith still have to be gotten out, which will not be a mean feat. Hopefully Voges does not have a mighty Ashes and faces us as a conqueror.

 

[Gob]

nz will get flogged 3-0 i think.

as for corey, he reminds me a fair bit of jaques kallis. his batting is not as good as jaques's at the moment but will be in time while he is already a far superior bowler.