Any updates on NZ's tour of Oz later this year?

[Hurricane]

Wait stop the press. There is an important development in this debate regarding Milne and the WACA.









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[CaptainGrumpy]

Has it even been confirmed as the WACA and not Subiaco oval?

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's the WACA we know what it will do.

Blokes have to bowl from two ends at the WACA.

And it hasn't always been "rapid" over the past ten years.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Has it even been confirmed as the WACA and not Subiaco (sp) oval?

Subiaco has never hosted a Test.

There is talk of moving the Test matches out to the new stadium being built near the casino, but that won't be till 2018 or so I believe.

 

[Hurricane]

Blokes have to bowl from two ends at the WACA.

And it hasn't always been "rapid" over the past ten years.

I defer to your knowledge obviously. My thoughts were that about ten years ago it was about two-three yards slower than the 80s. But then they did something and while it is not 80s pace it is faster again.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Subiaco has never hosted a Test.

There is talk of moving the Test matches out to the new stadium being built near the casino, but that won't be till 2018 or so I believe.

Yeah - I just understand that CA is not happy with the WACA, and understood that the Perth BBL team was playing more often at Subiaco.

That Burswood stadium, when built, should be a fair improvement

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah - I just understand that CA is not happy with the WACA, and understood that the Perth BBL team was playing more often at Subiaco.

That Burswood stadium, when built, should be a fair improvement

Hadn't heard anything about Subiaco and the Scorchers.

The Cricket Association's financial issues have limited their ability to upgrade the ground, so as a stadium it's fallen behind all the other venues.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I defer to your knowledge obviously. My thoughts were that about ten years ago it was about two-three yards slower than the 80s. But then they did something and while it is not 80s pace it is faster again.

They talk it up every year.

Remember, half the overs are bowled into a stiff breeze. If Milne is your last picked bowler, then you are using him from the best end to bowl from, possibly at the expense of your best two bowlers.

 

[Immenso]

I find it incredible, based in his sig, that Hurricane is so keen on Milne playing tests.

He's played I think 9 FC matches in his career which is now 6 seasons old. He makes Bennett look like titanium man in comparison, just that he broken down in non-televised games .... except Napier last year.

 

[Hurricane]

I find it incredible, based in his sig, that Hurricane is so keen on Milne playing tests.

He's played I think 9 FC matches in his career which is now 6 seasons old. He makes Bennett look like titanium man in comparison, just that he broken down in non-televised games .... except Napier last year.

Good point. But I did cover myself. I have asked for him to be part of a four man pace attack - with Corey or Jimmy if necessary able to pick up hid overs if he becomes cobbled. Which I concede is a possibility.

Who did we even have in that test match with Bennett. It was Chris Martin who put on a God like performance and inspired Mark Richardson to do his take off of the Who in honour of him. Daniel Vettori. Jeetan Patel, and Bennett.

Bennett was part of a two man pace attack which was madness looking back at it. Not to mention the fact that Patel was at best Dan's lacky in those days. So really we only had a three man bowling attack which became two men when Hamish broke down.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Hurricane, selfish? Please elaborate?

 

[Hurricane]

Hurricane, selfish? Please elaborate?

That was a wind up which I have deleted as I recall that Immenso or one of the other NZ posters who faithfully contributes good posts is a Bennett fan and I didn't want to offend.

Essentially at the time of his breakdown I ripped into Bennet. No one supported me and said that breakdowns just happen. I don't buy that philosophy. You have a fair idea of who can and who can't be reliable and Bennett (and admittedly Milne) are not in the reliable camp. He had no business being selected. Boult and Southee despite Trent's injury have been war horses.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

That was a wind up which I have deleted as I recall that Immenso or one of the other NZ posters who faithfully contributes good posts is a Bennett fan and I didn't want to offend.

Essentially at the time of his breakdown I ripped into Bennet. No one supported me and said that breakdowns just happen. I don't buy that philosophy. You have a fair idea of who can and who can't be reliable and Bennett (and admittedly Milne) are not in the reliable camp. He had no business being selected. Boult and Southee despite Trent's injury have been war horses.

That is not Bennett's fault. That is the selector's fault.

I was reading through the cricinfo commentary of Bennett's test debut. It said good pace, but no ball movement.

 

[Hurricane]

That is not Bennett's fault. That is the selector's fault.

I was reading through the cricinfo commentary of Bennett's test debut. It said good pace, but no ball movement.

He was pedestrian. Not in pace but in effectiveness. Back then they had Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman

For the short time that Bennett was out there he looked like a child bowling to giants of the game. Which is essentially what it was if you consider the match up of Hamish Bennett vs any of those four.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Well he did manage to bounce Dravid and collect his helmet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7j1J7wOuWw

Look at this video at about the 2 minute mark. Watch the 140km/h bowling fly after he's hit in the head with a bouncer.

 

[Skyliner]

Okay, so you want an attack of Milne and Southee and Boult and Craig. Where Milne takes the new ball. Those three seamers in the first innings, I fear someone's body will break. If not Milne then Boult.

I don't think Milne should take the new ball. He's to be used as a shock weapon, after Boult / Southee have used the new ball.
The idea of pure pace is its still a threat even with an older ball.

You're also saying essentially that if we play Milne we are tempting the fates, and that if he makes it through the test then it's likely Boult will break down. I'm not sure it works like that. I'm not sure that tempting the fates isn't just old fashioned superstition.

I can see the arguments for not playing Milne, still I would like to see us play him. I always like to see us go against the ingrained conservatism of NZ cricket, the baleful thing that Rixon fought so hard against when he came here, that "oh we mustn't do it because it might backfire" tentative, wussy stuff. It was him who pushed to get Vettori into the team when everyone was "oh, you mustn't put a young unknown spinner in the side, it isn't the done thing". It's the fear that NZ will look silly, also that everyone here at home will boot the boot in to whoever makes the (gutsy) selection, using the knocking machines gift of 20/20 hindsight.

What have you got to lose is taking risks to pursue victory? Absolutely nothing. If Milne doesn't come off, we have the resources to cover him. But the upside could be huge. If he did come off, it could make all the difference.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I don't think Milne should take the new ball. He's to be used as a shock weapon, after Boult / Southee have used the new ball.
The idea of pure pace is its still a threat even with an older ball.

You're also saying essentially that if we play Milne we are tempting the fates, and that if he makes it through the test then it's likely Boult will break down. I'm not sure it works like that. I'm not sure that tempting the fates isn't just old fashioned superstition.

I can see the arguments for not playing Milne, still I would like to see us play him. I always like to see us go against the ingrained conservatism of NZ cricket, the baleful thing that Rixon fought so hard against when he came here, that "oh we mustn't do it because it might backfire" tentative, wussy stuff. It was him he pushed to get Vettori into the team when everyone was "oh, you mustn't put a young unknown spinner in the side, it isn't the done thing". It's the fear that NZ will look silly, also that everyone here at home will boot the boot in to whoever makes the (gutsy) selection, using the knocking machines gift of 20/20 hindsight.

What have you got to lose is taking risks to pursue victory? Absolutely nothing. If Milne doesn't come off, we have the resources to cover him. But the upside could be huge. If he did come off, it could make all the difference.

Its not tempting the fates. Its maths. A third seamer like Wagner can bowl more overs a day than Boult. Can Milne bowl as many overs as Wagner? If not - Boult will have to bowl more. Unless you bowl Craig - but I am not sure he makes a four prong pace attack team. Plus, he is a second innings bowler, not a first innings bowler.

Its just managing the work loads for maximum effectiveness.

Look if Milne is match fit and ready for test cricket, then when looking at the pitch - it may be the best move. But you're giving the team a long tail starting at 8 without Craig's batting. Or if Craig plays, you're putting more pressure on the other bowlers to carry someone who could well be injured and/or ineffective.

Milne is averaging over 30 in FC cricket with a high economy rate. I fear, at this stage of Milne's career, that that will be cannon fodder for Aussie batsmen in a test match. They'll get over the shock of a kiwi with wheels pretty quickly in a test. Milne is far more effective as a ODI pacer for shock value. The shock doesn't necessarily take wickets, but can stop the batsmen scoring until they adjust to the pace.

If Milne bowls down wind - who bowls upwind? Boult? All day? I cannot see Tim being too happy about having to bowl upwind. Plus you want the wind to determine the cross breeze ends for the Boult and Southee, not because of Milne wanting an easier run up.

Can you imagine a long tail facing Starc, Johnson and Hazelwood?

 

[Skyliner]

What about Ryan Harris. The guys a crock playing on one leg. He's taken a year off, had no first class cricket leading up to the Ashes, and the Aussies just slot him in. If he was in NZ he wouldn't be picked, I'm sure of it. We'd be packing ourselves that he might break down.
If he breaks down in an Ashes test, the Aussies will cover for him. But they want him in the side for the upside he can give them, and they accept that he has an injury problem.

We did play Bond whenever he was available, including tests. We knew he was special, we knew he was a walking injury, we wanted him to play and we took the risk.

In the ODI series against England, we wanted Milne in the side. One of the big harped on things over the series was about how we were missing our frontline attack from the WC - no Boult, no Vettori, and no Milne. This is despite his injuries issues.

Injuries and 150+ kph go hand in hand.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

What about Ryan Harris. The guys a crock playing on one leg. He's taken a year off, had no first class cricket leading up to the Ashes, and the Aussies just slot him in. If he was in NZ he wouldn't be picked, I'm sure of it. We'd be packing ourselves that he might break down.
If he breaks down in an Ashes test, the Aussies will cover for him. But they want him in the side for the upside he can give them, and they accept that he has an injury problem.

We did play Bond whenever he was available, including tests. We knew he was special, we knew he was a walking injury, we wanted him to play and we took the risk.

In the ODI series against England, we wanted Milne in the side. One of the big harped on things over the series was about how we were missing our frontline attack from the WC - no Boult, no Vettori, and no Milne. This is despite his injuries issues.

Injuries and 150+ kph go hand in hand.

The Aussies carry Watson or MMarsh in their ranks. If Rhino breaks down in a test in the Ashes, they will probably retire him. Mark my words.

Plus Rhino is a proven performer averaging under 25. He is worth the risk.

I personally wish Bond had retired from tests and had had a long illustrious ODI career with many great victories and maybe some silverware.

Starc and Johnson (until recently) are regular 150 +, they're not walking injuries. Lee played a lot of tests. Pace isn't everything.

 

[vic_orthdox]

What about Ryan Harris. The guys a crock playing on one leg. He's taken a year off, had no first class cricket leading up to the Ashes, and the Aussies just slot him in. If he was in NZ he wouldn't be picked, I'm sure of it. We'd be packing ourselves that he might break down.
If he breaks down in an Ashes test, the Aussies will cover for him. But they want him in the side for the upside he can give them, and they accept that he has an injury problem.

We did play Bond whenever he was available, including tests. We knew he was special, we knew he was a walking injury, we wanted him to play and we took the risk.

In the ODI series against England, we wanted Milne in the side. One of the big harped on things over the series was about how we were missing our frontline attack from the WC - no Boult, no Vettori, and no Milne. This is despite his injuries issues.

Injuries and 150+ kph go hand in hand.

Looks like he won't be picked for the First Test...