Any updates on NZ's tour of Oz later this year?

[CaptainGrumpy]

I'm all for raising expectations, and I think one of the things that makes elite sports teams elite is that they have no option but to perform, as the consequences are too unpalatable.
Look at the Aussies, they talk themselves into a position where they have to go out and back it up. But crucially they do ensure they have the weapons to back it up.
Pure pace is the lethal cutting edge. Milne needs to develop a persona based around several gold chains, a moustache like Pancho Villa, wristbands, and a shaven head. He needs to exude menace and arrogance from every pore. He needs to be nasty, vicious, and mean.

I agree that he needs to bowl "nastier". He has the pace to do it successfully against batsmen with poor technique to shorter balls.

Not sure his mother or his girlfriend wants him to look like Mitchell Johnson with a shaved head, though.

 

[Skyliner]

Adam Milne cannot even bowl pure pace for ten overs in an ODI yet. I would wait for him to do that regularly, before describing him as a pure pace for a test match.

I reckon Starc will easily out pace throughout a day. And swing it.

People are losing their heads.

Poor kid cannot even get through an ODI season without being injured, and you want a debut test series in Australia?

Aussies top order batsmen will not be bothered by fact bowling that does not deviate (either by swing or by seam). They will smash 150-155km that is not doing something. They are raised on fast bowling. They have a never ending supply of fast bowling.

Grumpy, do not be overly intimidated by the Aussies. They are human like us. I feel they have gotten inside your head and you are mentally beaten already, and we are several months away from the first test. Milne is not a poor kid, he is our speed demon, our 150+ kph ace in the hole.

I also want to play a leg spinner against Australia. I don't want to take a backward step against Australia. If we stand up to the bully, we can prevail.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Grumpy, do not be overly intimidated by the Aussies. They are human like us. I feel they have gotten inside your head and you are mentally beaten already, and we are several months away from the first test. Milne is not a poor kid, he is our speed demon, our 150+ kph ace in the hole.

I also want to play a leg spinner against Australia. I don't want to take a backward step against Australia. If we stand up to the bully, we can prevail.

Want to beat Australia, look at the teams that tour Australia and beat them. They did it with smart cricket sticking to their orthodox and successful playing method.

This team is not in such dire straits that it needs to deviate from what has been working for it. I think that that would be foolish.

Trying to "blast" the Australian top order out with pace, is not likely to work. They are used to pace. They have grown up on Lee and Tait. Have Starc, Pattinson, Cummins and Johnson bowl to them regularly. Its nothing to them. I doubt it will even work against the middle order fighters, who even if technically deficient, will rise to the challenge and fight their way through it.

Knicking them out, that is how this team will beat Australia. Swing bowling and nibblers. Their batsmen can fail to good swing bowling. Boult outbowled Anderson in the last test series. Lets see how Jimmy goes against Australia this winter. If he causes them problems, that is your answer. If he doesn't, bare in mind that Boult did it better this year.

Didn't India bowl pace to them over the summer and just get carted? If only the new ball swings or seams round for NZ bowlers in Australia next year, then Milne as a third or fourth seamer seems like a dumb move. If the Pink ball just hoops all night, why not go for Wheeler or Dougie? (I cannot believe I said Dougie - but whoever can swing the ball).

As for intimidated by the Aussies, you seem to be calling on McCullem to go Jardine, use Milne as Larwood because you fear that Smith is Bradman. The last sentence is a joke. Please do not be offended by it.

 

[Hurricane]

Didn't India bowl pace to them over the summer and just get carted? .

That's a decent counter point.

However my counter to your counter point - is that they really had nothing in their attack. Ishant Sharma was their leader. Pace was about all they could muster.

I am calling for a four man pace attack with only one Man, Milne, really using Pace as his weapon. The other three will bowl fast medium and do the things you are talking about, e.g. nicking them out.

Raw unadulterated pace needs to be part of the mix though. He can even come on 2nd change after the ball has lost some shine.

 

[Bahnz]

Adam Milne cannot even bowl pure pace for ten overs in an ODI yet. I would wait for him to do that regularly, before describing him as a pure pace for a test match.

I reckon Starc will easily out pace throughout a day. And swing it.

People are losing their heads.

Poor kid cannot even get through an ODI season without being injured, and you want a debut test series in Australia?

Aussies top order batsmen will not be bothered by fact bowling that does not deviate (either by swing or by seam). They will smash 150-155km that is not doing something. They are raised on fast bowling. They have a never ending supply of fast bowling.

Nah, Milne can keep the pace up over 10 overs. Go check the Hawkeye readings from the UAE series last year, his speeds are pretty steady. Reckon if he was fully fit and used in short spells he could keep a 145+ pace average up over the course of a day.

Otherwise generally agree though.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

That's a decent counter point.

However my counter to your counter point - is that they really had nothing in their attack. Ishant Sharma was their leader. Pace was about all they could muster.

I am calling for a four man pace attack with only one Man, Milne, really using Pace as his weapon. The other three will bowl fast medium and do the things you are talking about, e.g. nicking them out.

Raw unadulterated pace needs to be part of the mix though. He can even come on 2nd change after the ball has lost some shine.

Nah it wasn't Sharma leading the attack. He was first change in the first test and dropped in the series.They also used Yadav, Shami, Aaron and Kumar.

Some of them were regularly bowling high 140's and over 150 in spells. They were caned.

You're talking about doing this at the expense of the man - who despite his terrible bowling average, has won us about 3.5 tests on the final day in his short career? Not to mention his great batting contributions. I think you're losing your head right about now. Even if you are talking the WACA only, look at the pitch first. Then, you will need some Kane overs just to keep up with the over rate (but I don't mind Kane overs so much).

 

[Flem274*]

Milne could be the best of all our bowlers but he's primarily a swing bowler when he gets that ball going. He's not really that flash at the back of a length stuff we're obsessed with from our third seamer atm and back of a length at the WACA gets carted. Australia do well there because they pitch it up.

Milne doesn't really swing the white ball consistently because of the length he's often asked to bowl and because he's usually first change. When he takes the new ball he gets movement.

I'd want to see him force his way in. We have options now. After seeing Lyon bowl there the other year I wouldn't drop Craig either.

You will not find a bigger Adam Milne fan than me.

Me

Adam Milne cannot even bowl pure pace for ten overs in an ODI yet.

Wrong

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Wrong

Proof?

 

[Bahnz]

Proof?

Check the hawk eye readings from the UAE:
2nd ODI: New Zealand v Pakistan at Sharjah, Dec 12, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Barring the odd slower ball it's pretty steady, and that's in 35 degree heat.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Nah, Milne can keep the pace up over 10 overs. Go check the Hawkeye readings from the UAE series last year, his speeds are pretty steady. Reckon if he was fully fit and used in short spells he could keep a 145+ pace average up over the course of a day.

Otherwise generally agree though.

Where can I look at the hawkeye readings? I know it was in the UAE he was causing Younis problems. But typically he drops off after the first spell. He may have managed it in the UAE in a match or two, but that is not so regular. Even then in the UAE, how fast was the third spell?

Thanks for the link - yeah that third spell had some balls at 146 and 147. But they only mention the quickest deliveries in the commentary right?

 

[Bahnz]

On the main score card, click on the button that says Hawk-Eye. Then click on the little arrow next to "Trajectory Viewer". From there you can change it to "bowl speeds". That shows (graphically) the pace for every delivery.You can change the innings that you're getting the data from in the "Customise Hawk-Eye" box.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Milne could be the best of all our bowlers but he's primarily a swing bowler when he gets that ball going. He's not really that flash at the back of a length stuff we're obsessed with from our third seamer atm and back of a length at the WACA gets carted. Australia do well there because they pitch it up.

Milne doesn't really swing the white ball consistently because of the length he's often asked to bowl and because he's usually first change. When he takes the new ball he gets movement.

I'd want to see him force his way in. We have options now. After seeing Lyon bowl there the other year I wouldn't drop Craig either.

Okay, so you want an attack of Milne and Southee and Boult and Craig. Where Milne takes the new ball. Those three seamers in the first innings, I fear someone's body will break. If not Milne then Boult.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

On the main score card, click on the button that says Hawk-Eye. Then click on the little arrow next to "Trajectory Viewer". From there you can change it to "bowl speeds". That shows (graphically) the pace for every delivery.You can change the innings that you're getting the data from in the "Customise Hawk-Eye" box.

Thank you so much. I never knew about that feature. Sincerely, thank you for that. Can it be changed to kmh from mph? I don't think in mph...

 

[Bahnz]

No problems. They don't have it for every game, but it's usually available for major matches and events (like the upcoming ashes).

 

[hendrix]

I'm Milne's biggest fan, but he cannot keep his pace anywhere near as well as someone like Mitchell Starc can his over a day.

Milne's first spell in an ODI is fast. He slows down.

Starc, Johnson (up until Hughe's death), Pattinson, Cummins - Aussie batsmen are used to fast bowlers, who can bowl heat all day.

Just because its the WACA does not mean the fastest bowler should automatically be selected. If there are major cracks - any bowler can expose those.

I know I'm talking to a brick wall.

I just Milne injuring himself trying to bowl fast all day, or being smashed by the batsmen.

Look you're absolutely right, which is why I signed off with #Bangladeshselectionpolicy - i.e. the idea that you don't back anyone that's only been acceptable to decent, and you go chasing the pie-in-the-sky fastbowler who might just destroy everyone but really probably won't.

It would be bad selection policy but McHesson does actually have a history of horses-for-courses - see West Indies and the UAE. And it did actually work out well for them in those scenarios.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Hey if a pitch is going to turn big early in the match, play 2 or more spinners.

I understand that fine. Most people do. What I don't understand is - "ooh we have a test in 5 months at the WACA, lets play 4 quicks, and our quickest bowler".

See the pitch first. See how the bowlers are bowling first. Think about a team balance that will win a test there.

 

[Hurricane]

I think its incredible that we have 9 pages of hype about a series that is 4 months away.

By the way my line of "Milne must play and he must bowl like the wind".

Is stolen from some random poster who single handedly talked all of CW into supporting a Bennett selection prior to an Indian tour. Sadly that endeavour did not end happily. I am hoping for better things from young Milne and Lol us for even getting hyped at 140kms as being like the wind anyway. Southee gets it through that fast when he can be arsed bending his back.

 

[Hurricane]

I understand that fine. Most people do. What I don't understand is - "ooh we have a test in 5 months at the WACA, lets play 4 quicks, and our quickest bowler".

See the pitch first. See how the bowlers are bowling first. Think about a team balance that will win a test there.

It's the WACA we know what it will do.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I think its incredible that we have 9 pages of hype about a series that is 4 months away.

By the way my line of "Milne must play and he must bowl like the wind".

Is stolen from some random poster who single handedly talked all of CW into supporting a Bennett selection prior to an Indian tour. Sadly that endeavour did not end happily. I am hoping for better things from young Milne and Lol us for even getting hyped at 140kms as being like the wind anyway. Southee gets it through that fast when he can be arsed bending his back.

He bloody well can. In Sri Lanka in 2012 or 2013, he was regularly bowling 140 and upto mid 140. And he looked dangerous.

I agree with you on that point. He can be so frustrating as a fan.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

It's the WACA we know what it will do.

That's the problem.

Selection hubris.

I think Tom Moody should write a book about matches at the WACA. Maybe Terry Alderman. Not sure Brendon Julian is best suited, but he does host Inside Cricket, so maybe him.