Grimmett and O'Reilly? Who was better?

[mr_mister]

Both made Bradman's all-time XI over Warne.. But who was better?

 

[watson]

O'Reilly and Grimmett both bowled leg-breaks, but there the similarity ends as they had very different styles. O'Reilly bowled at a 'ferocious' medium pace, while Grimmett was your classical slow bowler who liked to let the ball 'hang in the air'. So for me, it's too difficult to say who was better as they can't really be compared in any meaningful way. It's a bit like trying to compare Alec Bedser and Wes Hall? Where exactly do you start?

 

[Antihippy]

I was always fascinated with O'Reilly being able to bowl medium paced leg breaks. Though I assume it works better back in the day when the wickets were stickier?

Guess James Faulkner is carrying on that tradition in a way.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Warne

 

[OverratedSanity]

But really, OReilly. Much better record against England, and that's all I have to separate them.

 

[weldone]

O'Reilly has the slightly better test record. But I like Grimmett more because
1. He invented flipper.
2. Bradman dropped him for a silly personal comment when he really was at the top of his game. He wrecked havoc in FC for years after his last test, but was never recalled. His best years probably came at that time.

 

[Chrish]

Did Bradman encounter these two and Lindwall and Miller in FC? If yes, how well did it go? I am really curious about FC aspect of that era

 

[Coronis]

He encountered all of them I believe. Grimmett while he was still in NSW and the other three when he was in SA. Not sure exactly how it went. I believe he had a childhood rivalry with O'Reilly though.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Did Bradman encounter these two and Lindwall and Miller in FC? If yes, how well did it go? I am really curious about FC aspect of that era

Would've faced OReilly and Grimmett for sure. Did brilliant against O'Reilly I think. Cbf going through every match of his vs O'Reilly(or maybe I will), but there was this one match which is quite famous. Pitch was a ridiculous turner by all accounts. O'Reilly ripped apart Bradman's South Australia taking something like 15 wickets in the match. Bradman two fifties and looked like the only guy who knew how to hold a bat properly against O'Reilly.

Then there was an innings where Bradman scored 250 odd and took the piss against O'Reilly when everyone else kept collapsing and basically single handedly won the match. Grimmett was batting with Bradman at the other end and said he was constantly laughing in disbelief while Bradman creamed like 80-90 runs for the last wicket with him in no time.

Remember reading about all this in a book once, can't seem to place it. Might dig out the scorecards. Watch this space.

 

[Chrish]

Would've faced OReilly and Grimmett for sure. Did brilliant against O'Reilly I think. Cbf going through every match of his vs O'Reilly(or maybe I will), but there was this one match which is quite famous. Pitch was a ridiculous turner by all accounts. O'Reilly ripped apart Bradman's South Australia taking something like 15 wickets in the match. Bradman two fifties and looked like the only guy who knew how to hold a bat properly against O'Reilly.

Then there was an innings where Bradman scored 250 odd and took the piss against O'Reilly when everyone else kept collapsing and basically single handedly won the match. Grimmett was batting with Bradman at the other end and said he was constantly laughing in disbelief while Bradman creamed like 80-90 runs for the last wicket with him in no time.

Remember reading about all this in a book once, can't seem to place it. Might dig out the scorecards. Watch this space.

Brilliant! Appreciate the post bud.. Also, thanks @coronis

I can always check the international scoreboards on crickinfo.. But info on FC is pretty hard to obtain..

 

[OverratedSanity]

Brilliant! Appreciate the post bud.. Also, thanks @coronis

I can always check the international scoreboards on crickinfo.. But info on FC is pretty hard to obtain..

No problem. Did some digging, and the scorecards were pretty easy to find. This is the first match I mentioned:

South Australia v New South Wales Sheffield Shield 1937/38

Just looking at the scorecard makes it clear it must have been a nightmare for batsmen. Grimmett with 9 wickets in the match, O'Reilly with 14. Bradman scored 91 out of 221 in the first innings and 62 in the second, and almost took SA to victory.

The second one I mentioned is even more amazing, and seems to match my recollection of the Grimmett last wicket partnership perfectly.

South Australia v New South Wales at Adelaide Sheffield Shield 1939/40

251 out of a team score of 430 vs O'Reilly. What's ridiculous is the rate at which he scored. The 430 were scored in 72 overs... almost 6 runs per over, so it's pretty safe to assume the 251 would've been scored at around a run a ball or even faster.

For good measure, he followed it up with 90 in the second innings to chase down a target of 156

I've read quite a lot about Bradman recently and doing these random searches of scorecards from time to time constantly throws up some unreal performances from him. Shame we didn't have match reports for these old games. Would provide some great insight.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Here is this good article on tiger and fox by ashley mallett

While O'Reilly was all-out aggression, Grimmett was steady and patient. They both possessed a stock ball that turned from leg. O'Reilly's deliveries came at pace: his legbreak spat like a striking cobra, and his wrong'un reared at the chest of the batsman. For any batsman in combat with the Tiger there was no respite, no place to hide.

In contrast, Grimmett wheeled away in silence. He was like the wicked spider, spinning a web of doom. Sometimes it took longer for him to snare his victim, but despite their vastly different styles and methods of attack they were both deadly. A batsman caught at cover off Grimmett was just as out as a man who lost his off stump to a ball that pitched leg and hit the top of off from O'Reilly.

Ashley Mallett on Bill O'Reilly and Clarrie Grimmett | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[fredfertang]

Bit of trivia for you

By the time he reached the age that Grimmett was on debut O'Reilly had played his last Test*

*if you want to be anal about it he had one more to play but the one in NZ in 45/46 didn't have Test status at the time

 

[Coronis]

Always hated how Grimmett was kicked from the test side. Was by far a better bowler than anyone else in Australia at the time. Bar O'Reilly of course.

 

[AndrewB]

The second one I mentioned is even more amazing, and seems to match my recollection of the Grimmett last wicket partnership perfectly.

South Australia v New South Wales at Adelaide Sheffield Shield 1939/40

251 out of a team score of 430 vs O'Reilly. What's ridiculous is the rate at which he scored. The 430 were scored in 72 overs... almost 6 runs per over, so it's pretty safe to assume the 251 would've been scored at around a run a ball or even faster.

For good measure, he followed it up with 90 in the second innings to chase down a target of 156

I've read quite a lot about Bradman recently and doing these random searches of scorecards from time to time constantly throws up some unreal performances from him. Shame we didn't have match reports for these old games. Would provide some great insight.

There's newspaper reports, e.g. 19 Dec 1939 - SHEFFIELD SHIELD. WIN FOR SOUTH AUSTRALIA. BRADM... (though admittedly this is pretty brief and only covers the second innings). You might be able to find better with some digging.

Note that these were 8-ball overs, so if you assume Bradman came in after about 5 overs and then had half the strike, he'd scored 251 off 268 balls - not too far off a run a ball, so maybe that's what you meant.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I was always fascinated with O'Reilly being able to bowl medium paced leg breaks. Though I assume it works better back in the day when the wickets were stickier?

Guess James Faulkner is carrying on that tradition in a way.

Is he ever going to get a test career?

Surely he is breathing down Watto and more importantly M Marsh's knecks.

I do not rate M Marsh at all. I understand that Australia has an abundance of riches in seam bowling with Pattinson and Starc not in the "A" side behind Hazlewood and, Johnson and Rhyno with Lyon's spin.

It would appear that Faulkner needs to do more the bat than average 32. Which is more than M Marsh averages at first class. I don't think M Marsh is the goods at all. Faulkner's bowling at first class is an average of 24 which is outstanding batting aside, whereas M Marsh is 30 and 164 in tests.

It must be frustrating for Faulkner. He seems a champion player and walks into my current World ODI XI. I don't rate M Marsh in either format presently.

It seems that Cricket Australia have deemed that the 3rd seamer must bowl quick, and that Faulkner is not a good enough to bat 6. I understand the logic and the hope that Watto will find batting form, but not when M Marsh makes the team.

 

[cnerd123]

Is he ever going to get a test career?

Surely he is breathing down Watto and more importantly M Marsh's knecks.

I do not rate M Marsh at all. I understand that Australia has an abundance of riches in seam bowling with Pattinson and Starc not in the "A" side behind Hazlewood and, Johnson and Rhyno with Lyon's spin.

It would appear that Faulkner needs to do more the bat than average 32. Which is more than M Marsh averages at first class. I don't think M Marsh is the goods at all. His bowling at first class is an average of 24, whereas M Marsh is 30 and 164 in tests.

It must be frustrating for Faulkner. He seems a champion player and walks into my current World ODI XI. I don't rate M Marsh in either format presently.

It seems that Cricket Australia have deemed that the 3rd seamer must bowl quick, and that Faulkner is not a good enough to bat 6. I understand the logic and the hope that Watto will find batting form, but not when M Marsh makes the team.

What the ****

Wrong thread m8.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

What the ****

Wrong thread m8.

Nah. Segue. Antihippy mentioned James Faulkner. I continued the Faulkner discussion.

I am interested in people's views of whether Faulkner has been given a fair shake compared to M Marsh and for some, Watto.

 

[cnerd123]

No you went on a rant to push this weird anti MMarsh/Watson agenda you have. And you do this in so many threads. I don't even understand why. We don't select the teams. Go to the CA offices and rant at them. This is a thread about Grimmet and O'Reilly.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah I prefer Faulks to Marsh. I dislike both Marshs. Watto I still rate.


It's funny you didn't even mention Cummins, I think he's better than Pattinson. I guess Siddle is done for? lol our pace stocks are pretty deep atm. But soon enough Rhyno will have to retire anyway... 35 is old for a pace bowler