DoG's Test Innings and Bowling Performances. Updates thread.

[Days of Grace]

Just noticed something about the list. Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't have a single knock from the 4th innings in a losing cause. Now, I do understand that there should be a modifier factoring in that a batsman failed to get the team over the line (relative to one that did), but I still expected atleast one of maybe Gavaskar's 96 or Randall's 174 in the Centenary test or Tendulkar's 136 or the Kohli knock at Adelaide, or even that Bevan Congdon hundred vs England.

Don't want you to change anything in the methodology again and again, but what's the difference in the modifier for an innings which saved/won the match against one that fell just short. Might explain why Gavaskar's 221 is so high and the 96 is nowhere to be seen.

Nathan Astle's 222 is at no.48. Basically, you get points for how many runs your team scored in the 4th innings for wins and draws, but for losses, it's team runs scored minus the margin of losing. Bonus points for close losses by less than 50 runs.

Some notable innings in 4th innings losses:

NJ Astle 222 England Christchurch 2002 14.82
BE Congdon 176 England Nottingham 1973 13.52
KC Sangakkara 192 Australia Hobart 2007 13.45
SR Tendulkar 136 Pakistan Chennai 1999 13.30
DW Randall 174 Australia Melbourne 1977 12.40
V Kohli 141 Australia Adelaide 2014 12.23
DA Warner 123* New Zealand Hobart 2011 11.91
SR Gavaskar 96 Pakistan Bangalore 1987 11.48
L Hutton 62* Australia Brisbane 1950 8.88

 

[G.I.Joe]

Partnership runs are factored into a player's rating, so if you take out the massive partnership that Dravid had with Laxman, his rating would suffer. And who would he have had a partnership with if not Laxman? Therefore, it's impossible to give Dravid's innings a rating without Laxman's innings.

Put simply - take away Laxman's innings from the equation, distribute his 281 runs evenly among the remaining 9 batsmen, and keep all other parameters intact. The formula can handle a hypothetical, can't it?

 

[G.I.Joe]

For starters, Dravid could never played Laxman's innings in the first place as only Laxman could have demolished Warne that day like Laxman.

If Dravid was at No.3 then his passive technique would have enabled the Australian bowlers to maintain both inititive and pressure. But Laxman taking on McGrath, and Warne especially, made an Indian win a distinct possibility. Seen in that context Laxman's innings was miles ahead of Dravid's.

It's the difference between a genius and someone who is merely great.

Appreciate the essay, but you miss the point.

 

[Days of Grace]

Put simply - take away Laxman's innings from the equation, distribute his 281 runs evenly among the remaining 9 batsmen, and keep all other parameters intact. The formula can handle a hypothetical, can't it?

You'd have to give me a random number for the highest partnership Dravid was involved in, since that is one of the factors, as I explained above.

 

[Prince EWS]

PEWS is your man IMO.

I tried. He's got a few factors that I don't have a way of calculating at the moment. If someone copy/pasted every Test scorecard into separate txt files for me I could automate it for him, but I get the feeling no-one wants that particular job.

Maybe one of us should talk to James about potential access to the StatsSpider database.

 

[G.I.Joe]

You'd have to give me a random number for the highest partnership Dravid was involved in, since that is one of the factors, as I explained above.

90.

 

[Days of Grace]

90.

Right, this is assuming that he came in at the same point, i.e. 232/4 and the team score was 657/10. I'm also giving him some runs with the lower order and adding on the fall of wickets whilst he remained at the crease. The result is...exactly the same. To the nearest 0.25. So what does that prove?

 

[Riggins]

So what does that prove?

That you the bomb, basically.

 

[Flem274*]

Good list, man you're good at these things. And patient.

the fatal flaw is the lack of watling though. i think you need something like

1. BJ Watling 100* v engloland
2. BJ Watling 100 and lots v India
3. BJ Watling 100 and lots not out v Sri Lanka
4. BJ Watling 60 something and 40 something surrounded by lollapses v South Africa
5. Lara, Bradman and all those other hacks

Also can you tell us the worst 100 of all time that you've measured? We need to tear someone down here and call them rubbish.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Right, this is assuming that he came in at the same point, i.e. 232/4 and the team score was 657/10. I'm also giving him some runs with the lower order and adding on the fall of wickets whilst he remained at the crease. The result is...exactly the same. To the nearest 0.25. So what does that prove?

That the fact of the existence of Laxman's innings amounted to 0.25 points worth difference to what Dravid's innings was rated by the formula. Wasn't it clear what the purpose of this exercise was?

 

[Days of Grace]

That the fact of the existence of Laxman's innings amounted to 0.25 points worth difference to what Dravid's innings was rated by the formula. Wasn't it clear what the purpose of this exercise was?

It's all hypothetical. If Laxman gets out for a low score, does Dravid come in earlier and get point of entry points? How many runs does he score with the lower order? And on and on.

 

[honestbharani]

That the fact of the existence of Laxman's innings amounted to 0.25 points worth difference to what Dravid's innings was rated by the formula. Wasn't it clear what the purpose of this exercise was?

I get your point, Joe... But I think this was a bad example for your case because I think at least in this innings, it was very obvious and visible what effect Laxman's innings and the way he batted had on Dravid.

 

[Days of Grace]

Good list, man you're good at these things. And patient.

the fatal flaw is the lack of watling though. i think you need something like

1. BJ Watling 100* v engloland
2. BJ Watling 100 and lots v India
3. BJ Watling 100 and lots not out v Sri Lanka
4. BJ Watling 60 something and 40 something surrounded by lollapses v South Africa
5. Lara, Bradman and all those other hacks

Also can you tell us the worst 100 of all time that you've measured? We need to tear someone down here and call them rubbish.

Some BJ Love.

BJ Watling 142* Sri Lanka Wellington 2015 11.68
BJ Watling 120 England Leeds 2015 10.09
BJ Watling 124 India Wellington 2014 10.87


Not sure on the worst century. Scored on a road with a team score resembling 600/4 in a drawn match against a minnow opposition? Any suggestions?

For example, this second innings effort from Sanga on a road against Bangas and Mash gets only 3.01

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/690349.html

 

[weldone]

For example, this second innings effort from Sanga on a road against Bangas and Mash gets only 3.01

2nd Test: Bangladesh v Sri Lanka at Chittagong, Feb 4-8, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Isn't that harsh? Could he do much more there? Scored at a good SR, etc etc...He couldn't do much about the fact that the pitch was a road and taking 20 wickets was difficult
[If he scored that with SR of <50 then I'd agree that to be the worst century ever or something]

 

[Spark]

Isn't that harsh? Could he do much more there? Scored at a good SR, etc etc...He couldn't do much about the fact that the pitch was a road and taking 20 wickets was difficult
[If he scored that with SR of <50 then I'd agree that to be the worst century ever or something]

not sure why this is relevant

 

[weldone]

not sure why this is relevant

So you're agreeing with me

 

[marc71178]

Looks like the complete opposite to me, which would make sense really.

 

[Days of Grace]

Top 100 Test Bowling Performances

1 RGD Willis 8 43 Australia Leeds 1981 18.67
2 TE Bailey 7 34 West Indies Kingston 1954 17.66
3 HJ Tayfield 9 113 England Johannesburg 1957 17.55
4 JC Laker 9 37 Australia Manchester 1956 17.55
5 RJ Hadlee 9 52 Australia Brisbane 1985 17.50
6 CEL Croft 8 29 Pakistan Port of Spain 1977 17.35
7 AER Gilligan 6 7 South Africa Birmingham 1924 17.29
8 DE Malcolm 9 57 South Africa The Oval 1994 17.11
9 IT Botham 5 11 Australia Birmingham 1981 17.00
10 H Trumble 6 53 England Manchester 1902 16.58
11 PS de Villiers 6 43 Australia Sydney 1994 16.53
12 JC Laker 10 53 Australia Manchester 1956 16.53
13 SJ Harmison 7 12 West Indies Kingston 2004 16.45
14 DW Steyn 6 8 Pakistan Johannesburg 2013 16.41
15 Abdur Rehman 6 25 England Abu Dubai 2012 16.38
16 JE Taylor 5 11 England Kingston 2009 16.34
17 N. Kapil Dev 8 85 Pakistan Lahore 1983 16.33
18 WJ Whitty 6 17 South Africa Melbourne 1911 16.20
19 D Gough 6 42 South Africa Leeds 1998 16.11
20 Fazal Mahmood 6 46 England The Oval 1954 16.10
21 Harbhajan Singh 5 29 Australia Mumbai 2004 16.08
22 JB Statham 7 39 South Africa Lord's 1955 16.07
23 ERH Toshack 5 2 India Brisbane 1947 16.05
24 MA Noble 7 17 England Melbourne 1902 16.01
25 R Peel 6 67 Australia Sydney 1894 15.99
26 J Srinath 6 21 South Africa Ahmedabad 1996 15.98
27 Harbhajan Singh 8 84 Australia Chennai 2001 15.92
28 GD McGrath 8 24 Pakistan Perth 2004 15.84
29 DW Headley 6 60 Australia Melbourne 1998 15.84
30 A Kumble 10 74 Pakistan Delhi 1999 15.81
31 GA Lohmann 9 28 South Africa Johannesburg 1896 15.68
32 JM Patel 9 69 Australia Kanpur 1959 15.66
33 DW Steyn 7 51 India Nagpur 2010 15.63
34 AW Greig 8 86 West Indies Port of Spain 1974 15.60
35 JJC Lawson 6 3 Bangladesh Dhaka 2002 15.59
36 FR Spofforth 7 44 England The Oval 1882 15.55
37 AME Roberts 7 54 Australia Perth 1975 15.51
38 H Verity 8 43 Australia Lord's 1934 15.50
39 Shoaib Akhtar 6 11 New Zealand Lahore 2002 15.50
40 FS Trueman 8 31 India Manchester 1952 15.44
41 SJ Harmison 6 19 Pakistan Manchester 2006 15.42
42 JN Gillespie 7 37 England Leeds 1997 15.41
43 RJ Kirtley 6 34 South Africa Nottingham 2003 15.37
44 N Kapil Dev 5 28 Australia Melbourne 1981 15.29
45 GF Bissett 7 29 England Durban 1928 15.23
46 LR Gibbs 8 38 India Bridgetown 1962 15.22
47 DG Cork 7 43 West Indies Lord's 1995 15.21
48 AR Caddick 5 42 Australia The Oval 1997 15.16
49 MJ Hoggard 7 61 South Africa Johannesburg 2005 15.15
50 M Muralitharan 6 26 India Colombo (SSC) 2008 15.14
51 M Muralitharan 8 70 England Nottingham 2006 15.13
52 SK Warne 7 23 Pakistan Brisbane 1995 15.11
53 MR Whitney 7 27 India Perth 1992 15.10
54 M Muralitharan 9 51 Zimbabwe Kandy 2002 15.04
55 CA Walsh 5 39 Australia Bridgetown 1999 15.02
56 Imran Khan 6 35 India Hyderabad (Sind) 1983 15.01
57 AB Agarkar 6 41 Australia Adelaide 2003 15.01
58 Abdul Qadir 6 16 West Indies Faisalabad 1986 15.00
59 DAJ Bracewell 6 40 Australia Hobart 2011 14.97
60 AEE Vogler 7 94 England Johannesburg 1910 14.95
61 RJ Hadlee 7 23 India Wellington 1976 14.95
62 JA Snow 7 40 Australia Sydney 1971 14.94
63 VD Philander 5 15 Australia Cape Town 2011 14.93
64 MHN Walker 6 15 Pakistan Sydney 1973 14.91
65 AR Caddick 5 16 West Indies Lord's 2000 14.90
66 CEL Ambrose 7 25 Australia Perth 1993 14.88
67 MD Craig 7 94 Pakistan Sharjah 2014 14.81
68 GA Lohmann 8 7 South Africa Port Elizabeth 1896 14.78
69 AR Caddick 7 94 Australia Sydney 2003 14.74
70 CA Walsh 6 18 New Zealand Wellington 1995 14.73
71 ND Hirwani 8 75 West Indies Chennai 1988 14.72
72 AR Border 7 46 West Indies Sydney 1989 14.70
73 MG Johnson 7 40 England Adelaide 2013 14.69
74 ARC Fraser 8 75 West Indies Bridgetown 1994 14.66
75 M Muralitharan 9 65 England The Oval 1998 14.65
76 MH Mankad 8 55 England Chennai 1952 14.65
77 SK Warne 8 71 England Brisbane 1994 14.64
78 VD Philander 5 7 New Zealand Cape Town 2013 14.61
79 W Barnes 6 28 Australia Sydney 1887 14.61
80 Sarfraz Nawaz 9 86 Australia Melbourne 1979 14.59
81 Abdul Qadir 9 56 England Lahore 1987 14.58
82 FH Tyson 7 27 Australia Melbourne 1955 14.58
83 A. Kumble 7 63 Pakistan Kolkata 2005 14.56
84 MG Johnson 6 38 England Perth 2010 14.55
85 CA Walsh 7 37 New Zealand Wellington 1995 14.52
86 MA Holding 6 21 Australia Perth 1984 14.51
87 ND Hirwani 8 61 West Indies Chennai 1988 14.51
88 GD McKenzie 8 71 West Indies Melbourne 1968 14.51
89 SCJ Broad 5 37 Australia The Oval 2009 14.50
90 Imran Khan 8 60 India Karachi 1982 14.49
91 CEL Ambrose 6 24 England Port of Spain 1994 14.48
92 Shoaib Akhtar 6 30 New Zealand Wellington 2003 14.47
93 W Rhodes 8 68 Australia Melbourne 1904 14.44
94 MS Panesar 6 37 New Zealand Manchester 2008 14.44
95 H Trumble 7 28 England Melbourne 1904 14.43
96 BA Reid 7 51 England Melbourne 1990 14.41
97 AA Mallett 8 59 Pakistan Adelaide 1972 14.37
98 M Marshall 7 22 England Manchester 1988 14.35
99 IT Botham 8 34 Pakistan Lord's 1978 14.35
100 PM Hornibrook 7 92 England The Oval 1930 14.34


If anyone has any queries of a particular bowling analysis that missed the cut or any suggestions of some performances I may have missed, then let me know.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Pujara's 145*. Do it. Pretty sure it'll land in the top 100. Ticked every box.

 

[weldone]

Pujara's 145*. Do it. Pretty sure it'll land in the top 100. Ticked every box.

except quality of opposition bowlers maybe..