players Who You Thought WOULDN'T Make It.............

[tooextracool]

Even at Lord's in the second-innings, where they knew they were beaten and thrashed by the time the second-innings started, they delayed the inevitable for a while with 80 (26.3).

I though that the 80 odd that they put on in the 2nd innings required quite a lot of skill and patience actually. No doubt they both probably batted better in that 2nd innings than they did for the rest of the series IMO given the conditions and the way McGrath was bowling at the time.

 

[Manee]

The point is, though, that someone choosing to rest from Tests rather than ODIs is more than a little worrying.

He wanted to rest in the Kitply Cup and Asia Cup but the BCCI said no.

 

[Richard]

Aha.

Can't say that surprises me then.

 

[Richard]

I though that the 80 odd that they put on in the 2nd innings required quite a lot of skill and patience actually. No doubt they both probably batted better in that 2nd innings than they did for the rest of the series IMO given the conditions and the way McGrath was bowling at the time.

Oh absolutely - it was good batting. It was just never going to impact on the result of the game, because Australia had already set a target that was so far out of reach it could be compared to trying to jump from the road to touch the highest bridge on the M1.

 

[honestbharani]

Still dont rate Dhoni in tests tbh. Hes done marginally better than I expected him to do as a batsman given his poor technique, but hes still a very ordinary player that has scored runs against ordinary attacks on flat pitches. I dont expect that to change either. I know that he brings alot to the team outside of his cricketing skills, but I honestly dont think that he does a much better job than KKD Karthik could do.

The problem with that is Karthik has not kept in tests for such a long time now. And having played as a specialist bat in between... His keeping seems to have fallen down several notches.. From being a serious contender as one of the better keepers in the world, he is now putting us in a situation where so many are actually contemplating seriously that Parthiv might be the better option.


So obvious that he has concentrated on his batting so much to the detriment of his obvious natural keeping skills. And having been a keeper whenever I have played, albeit a million levels lower, I know that it is something that you just cannot do to a decent level straightaway without having done the hard work required in practice...

 

[honestbharani]

He wanted to rest in the Kitply Cup and Asia Cup but the BCCI said no.

haven't read that anywhere..


FWIW, I think it is the right move in the sense that the ODI team needs his leadership and guidance so much more than the test team needs his keeping and batting skills..

 

[tooextracool]

The problem with that is Karthik has not kept in tests for such a long time now. And having played as a specialist bat in between... His keeping seems to have fallen down several notches.. From being a serious contender as one of the better keepers in the world, he is now putting us in a situation where so many are actually contemplating seriously that Parthiv might be the better option.


So obvious that he has concentrated on his batting so much to the detriment of his obvious natural keeping skills. And having been a keeper whenever I have played, albeit a million levels lower, I know that it is something that you just cannot do to a decent level straightaway without having done the hard work required in practice...

Meh, but wicketkeeper is surely not something you can just lose? I mean you either have it or you dont because wicket keeping relies a lot upon instinct. I can understand that he is a bit rusty but surely if he were to practice consistently for a few weeks he would be able to get back to the standard that he was. I know that he was rated fairly highly as a keeper when he first came in, much better than Dhoni with the gloves at the time.

 

[Top_Cat]

Meh, but wicketkeeper is surely not something you can just lose? I mean you either have it or you dont because wicket keeping relies a lot upon instinct. I can understand that he is a bit rusty but surely if he were to practice consistently for a few weeks he would be able to get back to the standard that he was. I know that he was rated fairly highly as a keeper when he first came in, much better than Dhoni with the gloves at the time.

Nah, even a bloke as good as Ian Healy was only so because of his work ethic. Having the strength and stamina to move sideways, dive and recover for catches/wayward deliveries, 'keep to spinners, etc. and be able to do that all day is pretty much all about repetition and miles in the legs than anything instinctive.

 

[tooextracool]

Nah, even a bloke as good as Ian Healy was only so because of his work ethic. Having the strength and stamina to move sideways, dive and recover for catches/wayward deliveries, 'keep to spinners, etc. and be able to do that all day is pretty much all about repetition and miles in the legs than anything instinctive.

Yeah thats true and sadly it was fairly obvious that Healy was half the keeper at the end of his career as he was at the start. Wicket keepers in general are considered to be the fittest players on the field.
However, for someone like Karthik who has spent the majority of his career as a keeper, surely at 23 he cant be finished? I mean if he trained for a few weeks and got some practice he would be perfectly fine in a few weeks. At the end of the day, keeping to spinners and pulling off spectacular catches has less to do with work ethic than it does with reflexes, much like fielding at short leg. You either have it or you dont. Its not like batting or bowling where you have to play yourself back into form.

 

[Salamuddin]

Meh, but wicketkeeper is surely not something you can just lose? I mean you either have it or you dont because wicket keeping relies a lot upon instinct. I can understand that he is a bit rusty but surely if he were to practice consistently for a few weeks he would be able to get back to the standard that he was. I know that he was rated fairly highly as a keeper when he first came in, much better than Dhoni with the gloves at the time.

I don't think Dhoni can be called a poor keeper anymore. He has improved a lot with the gloves since 2005.
He will never be a brilliant keeper but I think he is competent enough to be test match standard.


And regrading his batting, he still averages more than pretty much any other Indian keeper that has played test cricket.
Yes, he's no Gilchrist....but seriously, does India have a clearly superior option ? Dhoni's keeping is decent and I'm not convinced yet that Karthik is a whole lot better with the bat.

 

[tooextracool]

I don't think Dhoni can be called a poor keeper anymore. He has improved a lot with the gloves since 2005.
He will never be a brilliant keeper but I think he is competent enough to be test match standard.


And regrading his batting, he still averages more than pretty much any other Indian keeper that has played test cricket.
Yes, he's no Gilchrist....but seriously, does India have a clearly superior option ? Dhoni's keeping is decent and I'm not convinced yet that Karthik is a whole lot better with the bat.

I never said Dhoni is a poor keeper, I said that he was a poor keeper when he started but he clearly is a lot better now. However, I dont rate his batting in tests. His technique is poor and the only runs he has scored have come on the most lifeless test match wickets which has boosted his average. I dont expect that to change anytime soon. I dont think his batting is better than Karthik's and most people would consider Karthik to be a better keeper in test match cricket too. Im not suggesting he should be dropped, because I know he brings more to the side than just his batting and keeping but his performances in tests need to be put into context. In ODIs however, it is obvious that he is one of the best players going around.

 

[Bahnz]

I've gotta put my hand up now and say BJ Watling. He didn't have much pedigree when he came onto the scene: a mediocre player in a poor u19 side, and his first couple of seasons in first class cricket didn't light the world on fire either. When he took his turn on the NZ opener merry-go-round I thought he looked utterly forgettable, and wasn't at all surprised to see him do dreadfully against Australia and India in 2010. Nothing obviously wrong with his technique, it just seemed like he was playing out of his league. I predicted he'd go the way of Flynn and Redmond, and be remembered only because of his tmsofa moniker: blow-job twatling.

When I heard in 2011 that he was getting a recall as a keeper batsman I couldn't help but roll my eyes. Seemed like a classic case of the kiwi selectors trying shoehorn a player into a role that he wasn't suited for. Thought he'd average high 20's at best and - given that he hadn't kept since his U19 days - drop a bunch of important chances along the way.

It took me a long time to shift from that view point. Even when he was our leading light on an otherwise miserable tour of SA in 2013, I chalked it up to a purple patch. I started to warm up to him a bit more when he strung together some scores against the Bangerz and WI in 2013. But the moment that the penny really dropped for me was on the 2014 tour of WI. In tough conditions, not only did he string together a sequence of vital contributions with the bat, he proved himself to be sublime with the gloves in conditions where the ball was really fizzing and turning at times. By the end of that series he'd completely out-kept the more experienced Ramdin, and I realised that we'd found a genuine quality allrounder.

To Watling: over these past 12 months you've helped many people like myself overcome the trauma of having the initials BJ. Long may you fly the BJ flag high.

 

[Dan]

Yeah when Watling was brought back my immediate reaction was "why not DdB?" But he's certainly made the role his own and is genuinely the WPWB these days. OPWB doesn't go far enough.

 

[Athlai]

A case could be made for Watling in an ATG NZ XI. That definitely came out of left field.

 

[Daemon]

Steve Smith wins, as usual

 

[Bahnz]

A case could be made for Watling in an ATG NZ XI. That definitely came out of left field.

If he meeps up his recent form for another 2 years there'll be absolutely no doubt.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Steve Smith, Hashim Amla.

 

[CricAddict]

Always knew ABDV was a very good batsman but never expected him to reach the standards he is at right now. When he said in an interview few years back that he wanted to be the best batsman in the world, I thought that was pretty ambitious for him. But he is there right now.

 

[Dan]

Mitchell Johnson. Never expected his 2013/14 Ashes at all.

I mean, I said I would have had Ben Cutting and Luke Butterworth ahead of him ffs. Still not Spikey and Hilf-gate though

 

[Gob]

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