*Official* New Zealand in England 2015

[Bahnz]

Lol, nothing to do with apologising, there's no need to get defensive, this isn't a trial. I was simply illustrating that we're all capable of letting our own teams flaws/poor performances overshadow occasions in which the opposition played really well on a given day, which Dilshan did on that occasion.

And tbf, while I recall you saying you didn't think we'd win the world cup after that, you were hardly implying we'd make in all the way to the final, which was arguably our greatest cricketing moment ever.

We've all had our moments when irrationality and the emotion of the moment can make us look too much inwardly, rather than simply saying we were outplayed. To suggest it's always others, does come across a touch high & mighty at times. It's okay to say we're 'wrong' on occasions mate, nobody is perfect here.

Yeah, I agree with that. It's just that I'm not wrong in this case. Or ever.

 

[Zinzan]

Very good, I'll take that as a concession of sorts, even if it's a slightly grudging one

 

[jcas0167]

I would move Latham down the order to keep, but for the fact that brings Rutherford into the team. I think Ronchi at 7 with Latham opening is probably going to score more runs than Rutherford opening with Latham keeping down the order. A possible alternative would be for non keeping Watling to open and to drop Latham down the order as keeper - but Watling bats so well in the middle order and Latham will develop his game as an opener playing in England in May against Anderson and Broad. So I prefer Ronchi in the team as opposed to Rutherford in the team. I prefer Rutherford in the team to Bracewell as a fifth bowler if Watling cannot play even as a specialist batsman, however. Then it is a question of where Rutherford bats? Probably Guptill into the middle order and Latham and Rutherford opening? Or try Rutherford in the middle order. Either way, something has gone wrong if Doug Bracewell bats at 7 or higher and not as a night watchman.

Put simply, if Watling can bat but cannot keep, he is the team for mine. Anderson if injured can be replaced by Ronchi, and if Anderson is fit - Anderson can be dropped and replaced Ronchi but really by Watling as a specialist bat. But I know you already worked that out from your earlier post.

I think Guptill could be quite destructive coming in against the older ball, but I think they would want to maintain that opening partnership. I'd be intrigued to see how Rutherford would get on batting number 5 or 6. On the last tour I remember Botham thought Rutherford would be one of NZ's best players in the coming years, but he hasn't really developed. He did have laser eye surgery recently, so at least doesn't have to worry about his contacts coming loose any more.

 

[RxGM]

I think Guptill could be quite destructive coming in against the older ball, but I think they would want to maintain that opening partnership. I'd be intrigued to see how Rutherford would get on batting number 5 or 6. On the last tour I remember Botham thought Rutherford would be one of NZ's best players in the coming years, but he hasn't really developed. He did have laser eye surgery recently, so at least doesn't have to worry about his contacts coming loose any more.

I have bad memories of Guppy coming is at 6 against the old spiining ball last time we played at leeds. Swan destroyed him.

 

[Hurricane]

I have bad memories of Guppy coming is at 6 against the old spiining ball last time we played at leeds. Swan destroyed him.

Guptill needs to open - and if ken's son plays he can go down the order since he is the fillin.

 

[jcas0167]

I have bad memories of Guppy coming is at 6 against the old spiining ball last time we played at leeds. Swan destroyed him.

Yes, which would be my main reservation in him being the one to slot down if all three play. OTOH, he did ok coming in at number 5 against Nathan Hauritz.

 

[Zinzan]

Yes, which would be my main reservation in him being the one to slot down if all three play. OTOH, he did ok coming in at number 5 against Nathan Hauritz.

Ahh that Ross Taylor innings that match was so so good.

 

[Stapel]

I think Guptill could be quite destructive coming in against the older ball, but I think they would want to maintain that opening partnership. I'd be intrigued to see how Rutherford would get on batting number 5 or 6. On the last tour I remember Botham thought Rutherford would be one of NZ's best players in the coming years, but he hasn't really developed. He did have laser eye surgery recently, so at least doesn't have to worry about his contacts coming loose any more.

-Not true
-Botham also believed Panesar was the only bowler able to come close to his number of wickets

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I think Guptill could be quite destructive coming in against the older ball, but I think they would want to maintain that opening partnership. I'd be intrigued to see how Rutherford would get on batting number 5 or 6. On the last tour I remember Botham thought Rutherford would be one of NZ's best players in the coming years, but he hasn't really developed. He did have laser eye surgery recently, so at least doesn't have to worry about his contacts coming loose any more.

I agree with your points about Guptill and share the intrigue about Rutherford in the middle order but at this stage Botham is wrong. I understand Rutherford was selected in case Guptill thought the new red balls were in fact hand grenades and batted accordingly but does anyone know why Munro was not selected for the tour? Has he slept with someone's wife or girlfriend or something?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

-Not true
-Botham also believed Panesar was the only bowler able to come close to his number of wickets

To be fair if he hadn't lost his way he would have done. Hard to expect any paceman to get 400 wickets so a spinner who had 130 fairly quickly and was in his mid 20's was a decent bet at the time.

 

[RxGM]

I agree with your points about Guptill and share the intrigue about Rutherford in the middle order but at this stage Botham is wrong. I understand Rutherford was selected in case Guptill thought the new red balls were in fact hand grenades and batted accordingly but does anyone know why Munro was not selected for the tour? Has he slept with someone's wife or girlfriend or something?

They don't rate him as a test player, and if they needed cover for the lower middle order they have Ronchi. It is only a tour party of 15. So they have a reserve batsman, keeper and 2 bowlers.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

They don't rate him as a test player, and if they needed cover for the lower middle order they have Ronchi. It is only a tour party of 15. So they have a reserve batsman, keeper and 2 bowlers.

Who does not rate him and why? He is also a non-selection in the pyjama games squad too.

Why is he not rated as a test player?

 

[Zinzan]

On the last tour I remember Botham thought Rutherford would be one of NZ's best players in the coming years, but he hasn't really developed. He did have laser eye surgery recently, so at least doesn't have to worry about his contacts coming loose any more.

Tbf mate, when a chap under the age of 25 scores 170 odd on debut, it's hard not to talk him up.

As wonderful a cricketer Beefy was, I'm not sure he's quite so wonderful in assessing promising players.

 

[RxGM]

Who does not rate him and why? He is also a non-selection in the pyjama games squad too.

Why is he not rated as a test player?

In the test side his only opening is at number 6. The would prefer to play an allrounder at 6 and his bowling is not up to standard. Anderson & Neesham are both ahead of him.
I also dont think they rate him as a test batsman as he has scored alot of runs on Sandringham road (Eden Park Outer Oval), and his technique probably isnt test standard.
For Odis, ultimatly he has a chance to play at 5, but once again he is behind elliot and potentially latham for that spot

 

[Kippax]

Boy, if some of the posting in this tour thread illustrates what it's like to have a cricket team that's become almost as appealing to New Zealanders as the All Blacks are, McCullum and Hesson really can't shift off to India together soon enough.

 

[Zinzan]

I agree with your points about Guptill and share the intrigue about Rutherford in the middle order but at this stage Botham is wrong. I understand Rutherford was selected in case Guptill thought the new red balls were in fact hand grenades and batted accordingly but does anyone know why Munro was not selected for the tour? Has he slept with someone's wife or girlfriend or something?

I've always liked the look of Munro, but feel he was a bit of a scapegoat after the disastrous '13 test series in SA. I don't think they rate his defense at test level in spite of his FC numbers.

 

[RxGM]

Tbf mate, when a chap under the age of 25 scores 170 odd on debut, it's hard not to talk him up.

As wonderful a cricketer Beefy was, I'm not sure he's quite so wonderful in assessing promising players.

Its also very difficult as a commentator as he is carving your team all round the park, what do you say, "hmmm i dont think this rutherford guy is very good"

 

[Athlai]

Boy, if some of the posting in this tour thread illustrates what it's like to have a cricket team that's become almost as appealing to New Zealanders as the All Blacks are, McCullum and Hesson really can't shift off to India together soon enough.

You're the best, even when I understand what you're saying I still don't.

 

[Zinzan]

Its also very difficult as a commentator as he is carving your team all round the park, what do you say, "hmmm i dont think this rutherford guy is very good"

Indeedy

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I've always liked the look of Munro, but feel he was a bit of a scapegoat after the disastrous '13 test series in SA. I don't think they rate his defense at test level in spite of his FC numbers.

What is wrong with his defense? Corey Anderson seems to have a green light to play to cow corner against seam, and spin. What does Munro do wrong in defense? Does he leave the wide of off stump ball or smash it through the off side and not the on side?