*Official* New Zealand in England 2015

[SteveNZ]

It actually doesn't. It's just umpiring convention.

True. And it's not a bad one.

 

[SteveNZ]

Only way there's a result is if there's a collapse one way or the other. Cook sucks.

Even if Cook wanted to turn over a new leaf, the environment of English cricket doesn't allow him to be bold. If he was and we won, the press would absolutely slaughter him to the point of his job no longer being tenable. Having said that, he's been a very average captain for a long period of time so he's probably made his bed in that regard.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

It is still winnable for NZ - look it wasn't that long ago when Pakistan chased down 300 odd in about 55 overs to win a test again SL - 195 in the last session. If we see off the new ball 350 in 70 is possible. Didn't Guppy get his Viv 189 at Lords? I reckon his ball striking could be very useful.

Draw - 60%
England win - 30%
NZ win - 10%

 

[_Ed_]

While I'm disappointed with the way the game has slipped out of our grasp, I have to say I'm absolutely delighted for Cook. So great to see a class player turn his fortunes around so emphatically.

 

[SteveNZ]

It is still winnable for NZ - look it wasn't that long ago when Pakistan chased down 300 odd in about 55 overs to win a test again SL - 195 in the last session. If we see off the new ball 350 in 70 is possible. Didn't Guppy get his Viv 189 at Lords? I reckon his ball striking could be very useful.

Draw - 60%
England win - 30%
NZ win - 10%

When you're chasing 300-350 plus in a fourth innings of a Test with a set overs scenario, you just bat for the first 10 or so overs. If we're 40-0 off 10, then you might reassess and think yep we need to go after this. I doubt we'd promote Brendon or anything else like that. But if we're 20-0 or lost wickets, you probably just keep batting and look to move on at 0-0. Point being we don't have to launch a chase from ball one and say 'yep we're doing this'.

 

[Riggins]

Even if Cook wanted to turn over a new leaf, the environment of English cricket doesn't allow him to be bold. If he was and we won, the press would absolutely slaughter him to the point of his job no longer being tenable. Having said that, he's been a very average captain for a long period of time so he's probably made his bed in that regard.

I agree. It'd be good for both teams if a bit of an early collapse for England led to a 320 target in low 80's overs.

 

[Hurricane]

regarding 350 off 70 overs

Don't chase it or even keep an open mind towards chasing it. By keeping an open mind I mean assessing where we are after 20 overs. Just shut up shop right away. That wicket was taking spin and we will do well to bat out 70 overs given our long tail.

 

[hendrix]

Nah, I'm definitely happy with a draw given how little prep half the team has had. The bowlers will be in much better shape to do some damage in the second test and Kane will be playing at his second home. Would rather kept ourselves in with a chance to take the series than risk it on what will be - realistically - a hopeless chase. Getting 350+ in 75 overs against England's bowling attack is pretty much impossible.

Also, just took a casual glance at Jeet's stats with Warks. 15 wickets at 28. What might have been...

Dude what are the chances that Jimmy Anderson will be so ineffective at Leeds?

We could very easily lose the second Test. Go for the win here, and if it's not looking likely, fine, shut up shop. But you don't often have a chance to win at Lord's.

 

[Bahnz]

Dude what are the chances that Jimmy Anderson will be so ineffective at Leeds?

We could very easily lose the second Test. Go for the win here, and if it's not looking likely, fine, shut up shop. But you don't often have a chance to win at Lord's.

Equally you could say what are the odds that Soult will be so ineffective 2 games in a row. We could very easily win the 2nd test as well. Don't agree with the attitude that "we might lose next week so we should go for a win even though we have sfa chance of achieving it" because there's a significant risk of losing given how fragile our middle-order/tail can be.

My point is we don't have a chance to win now (unless England collapse inside the first 5 overs or so).

 

[Hurricane]

Maybe if we were facing SL's medium pace bowling attack it would be worthwhile contemplating. This is England in England with a red Duke ball. Bahnz is 100% correct.

If we really really want to chase this then open with Baz and tell him to win it by himself by going off. I don't think he is much value in batting for a draw anyway so he is our "free wicket".

Baz 300 not out in a day (Bradman style)
Tom Latham 50 not out off 120 balls.

 

[hendrix]

Equally you could say what are the odds that Soult will be so ineffective 2 games in a row. We could very easily win the 2nd test as well. Don't agree with the attitude that "we might lose next week so we should go for a win even though we have sfa chance of achieving it" because there's a significant risk of losing given how fragile our middle-order/tail can be.

My point is we don't have a chance to win now (unless England collapse inside the first 5 overs or so).

Southee and Boult haven't been ineffective.

We've carved through their top order in both innings. Their middle order has performed well and that was always going to be the worry given that Corey Anderson and Mark Craig are the weak links in our attack and they have Moeen Ali batting at 8.

Unless we move Williamson to 5 so it's a direct battle with Root, the cost in our top order not performing is far greater than it is for England.

I dunno, I guess now that I'm seeing Stokes bowling and batting and the likes of Mark Wood bowling - these guys are actually decent and it's a strong bowling attack. I can see us getting knocked over at Leeds.

 

[Bahnz]

Maybe if we were facing SL's medium pace bowling attack it would be worthwhile contemplating. This is England in England with a red Duke ball. Bahnz is 100% correct.

If we really really want to chase this then open with Baz and tell him to win it by himself by going off. I don't think he is much value in batting for a draw anyway so he is our "free wicket".

Baz 300 not out in a day (Bradman style)
Tom Latham 50 not out off 120 balls.

Ummmm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJ9FUvkhY8

 

[Bahnz]

Southee and Boult haven't been ineffective.

We've carved through their top order in both innings. Their middle order has performed well and that was always going to be the worry given that Corey Anderson and Mark Craig are the weak links in our attack and they have Moeen Ali batting at 8.

Unless we move Williamson to 5 so it's a direct battle with Root, the cost in our top order not performing is far greater than it is for England.

I dunno, I guess now that I'm seeing Stokes bowling and batting and the likes of Mark Wood bowling - these guys are actually decent and it's a strong bowling attack. I can see us getting knocked over at Leeds.

Not entirely surprising for a couple of bowlers who've been limited to 2 over spells for the last couple of months. They'll be better for having the miles in their legs next week.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I would be pretty content if Gerard Stokes gets his wish:

"Ideally a draw where both teams play well".

Proud dad Gerard Stokes torn as son Ben readies to face Black Caps | Stuff.co.nz

Gerard and Deb Stokes have grappled with this for some time. Now over five sleepless nights at their Christchurch home, they will cheer on their son, and the team he's playing against in a cricket test at Lord's.

All-rounder Ben Stokes will play his 10th test for England, and first against his country of birth on Thursday night, joining Andrew Caddick as the only members of that exclusive club.

"It's a strange one; I've always said I'll support Ben in every team he plays, but when he's playing New Zealand he understands that we'll support New Zealand. Still in our own hearts we want him to do well. Any parent would know what that feeling is like," said father Gerard, the one-test Kiwis league prop whose coaching career took the family to the north of England for a decade, just before Ben started high school.

The Stokes' returned to New Zealand two years ago while their son's cricket career took off. His test debut was against Australia in Adelaide in December, 2013 and in his second test he blazed 120 in Perth. The Black Caps always loomed but his parents say this one has more significance for them, than Stokes jnr who speaks with a broad northern accent.

"He will give everything no matter what he plays: a test or club cricket on the village green against a farmers' XI. He's been a competitor like that as long as I can remember. It [playing New Zealand] adds an edge for all of us but I'm not so sure if it does for him," Gerard Stokes said.

"He doesn't say too much about that because he does regard himself as an Englishman, but we keep reminding him there's 100 per cent New Zealand blood in his body."

 

[SteveNZ]

Wasn't aware the loser of the series (if there was one) drops to 7th...that'd be a nice way to burst a bubble if we were to suffer it.

 

[Days of Grace]

Here's a thought: McCullum to open in place of a tired Latham and him and Guptill go for it. If he gets out early, shut up shop.

It will be very difficult for Latham to Engineer a chase opening the batting after wicketkeeping for more than a day (certain posters will get this intended pun).

One more thought: we're really missing a Nathan Astle-type 5th bowler who can tie down an end for a number of overs. I'm really concerned about our attack leaking runs like a sieve against set batsmen.

Gutted how the 4th day turned out anyway.

 

[Bahnz]

Hmmm...I actually think that even 350 off 75 is likely to be way too adventurous for Cook, given his own position and how narrow an escape this has been for England (if Root had nicked off early yesterday morning then things might have gone very differently). Doubt he'll declare until 20 minutes before lunch at the earliest.

 

[ajdude]

His test debut was against Australia in Adelaide in December, 2013 and in his second test he blazed 420 in Perth.

#kpsfault

 

[Athlai]

How are Anderson and Watling? Are both fit?

 

[NZTailender]

2 test centuries

1 v johnson and harris at perth no less

1 v boult and southee

kids got a high ceiling

He's the anti-Ballance