"If McGrath doesn't step on that ball, we win the Ashes. Probably 5-0"

[Furball]

So reckons Matthew Hayden anyway. Just watching the Glenn McGrath special that's come on Sky after the cricket and he's just uttered those words.

I think Hayden's deluded about the 5-0 part, Australia's batting was pretty wretched that series so I don't see a 5-0 occurring but it raises an interesting point anyway. In that parallel universe, where McGrath was fit for Edgbaston and bowls Australia to a 2-0 series lead, how differently do we think cricket turns out for both countries?

 

[Top_Cat]

Not many teams have ever come back from 2-0 down so, if that occurred, they probably would have won the series. But I don't think it's a given at all that they'd have won even if McGrath played. It says a lot about the success of English plans to the Aussie bats that both of their two best bowlers had brilliant series' yet the team was beaten comfortably.

 

[sledger]

If wishes were fishes, the world would be an ocean.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Look in the book.

Though Australia might have done better had Hayden not batted like a blind man with no arms for the series.

 

[Furball]

Not many teams have ever come back from 2-0 down so, if that occurred, they probably would have won the series. But I don't think it's a given at all that they'd have won even if McGrath played. It says a lot about the success of English plans to the Aussie bats that both of their two best bowlers had brilliant series' yet the team was beaten comfortably.

I'm wondering more along the lines of: would Warne and McGrath have carried on post 2005? Don't think it's a coincidence that they gave it up when they did having extracted the most brutal of revenges.

And for England, would **** blokes like Harmison have been persisted with anywhere near as long if their name hadn't been prefixed with "2005 Ashes Winner"?

 

[GIMH]

Come on now. Don't make out that's anything to do with why Harmison was persisted with.

 

[Furball]

I think up until the 2009 Ashes there was definitely a desire from some to reunite the band from 2005.

I'm not saying it was the only reason but I think being part of a successful side can certainly help mask your own individual failings. No-one seemed to notice in 2005 that apart from taking 5 on the first day and hitting Ponting, Harmison did **** all all series bar one slower ball. Failure is much more easily tolerated in a successful side. To use a topical example; let's say that England go Down Under in 2013 and win 2 or 3-1. No chance KP gets dumped.

 

[Red]

The way McGrath bowled in that 1st test though. I can see what Hayden is saying.

Did Ponting win the toss and bowl in the 2nd test?

 

[JTemperance]

England always used to sneak at least one Test at home against the great Aussie sides, so I'd say 4-1 or 3-1 to Australia with a fit McGrath playing all through the series.

Think it was actually Justin Langer, not Hayden.

 

[Furball]

England always used to sneak at least one Test at home against the great Aussie sides, so I'd say 4-1 or 3-1 to Australia with a fit McGrath playing all through the series.

Think it was actually Justin Langer, not Hayden.

It was Hayden.

 

[SteveNZ]

Never have I heard a better case for 'if my Aunty had a dick, she'd be me Uncle'.

If Klusener's brain didn't press the eject button in the 99 semi, Australia might only have the 87 World Cup to their name. Who knows.

 

[Furball]

Never have I heard a better case for 'if my Aunty had a dick, she'd be me Uncle'.

If Klusener's brain didn't press the eject button in the 99 semi, Australia might only have the 87 World Cup to their name. Who knows.

An interesting POV but there's absolutely no way they don't win at least the 2007 World Cup. That team is the greatest team the ODI game will ever see IMO.

 

[Furball]

Also the segment Sky had on him was top quality. **** McGrath was amazing.

Sky really cheapened the "Cricket's Greatest" theme they had going on for an hour by following McGrath with a hack like Kallis.

 

[SteveNZ]

An interesting POV but there's absolutely no way they don't win at least the 2007 World Cup. That team is the greatest team the ODI game will ever see IMO.

Oh no doubt they were, it's not actually a point of view I hold - just saying there's all sorts of hypotheticals we could throw up. We could say SA have been burdened by the 99 disaster at every World Cup since, maybe that would've been Australia? I doubt it, but who knows.

Hayden is being a bit of an arrogant prick suggesting it. England were a very good side who played the better cricket from Edgbaston on. And no one shot McGrath - he stood on a ball in a warm-up drill that I think I'm fairly safe in saying was placed there by his own side, not the man on the grassy knoll.

 

[Bahnz]

It's certainly a lot tougher to see England rattling up 400 on day 1 at Edgbaston if McGrath had been playing. On the other hand, it's a lot harder to imagine McGrath putting together a 60 run last wicket partnership as well, so who knows?

I do agree that if England had lost that test things could've unravelled very quickly through a combination of declining morale and possible selection changes.

 

[Burgey]

Also the segment Sky had on him was top quality. **** McGrath was amazing.

Sky really cheapened the "Cricket's Greatest" theme they had going on for an hour by following McGrath with a hack like Kallis.

He was a freak, McGrath. That footage of him, retired, undoing Warner in that T20 in Brisbane a few years back just summed up his genius.

Wasn't the fastest, didn't get the most movement. He just got you out. All the ****ing time

As for the 5-0 thing, no way. But its no coincidence they lost the two tests he missed.

 

[Bahnz]

He was a freak, McGrath. That footage of him, retired, undoing Warner in that T20 in Brisbane a few years back just summed up his genius.

Wasn't the fastest, didn't get the most movement. He just got you out. All the ****ing time

As for the 5-0 thing, no way. But its no coincidence they lost the two tests he missed.

To be fair, the only reason why Australia didn't lose the 3rd test was because a day was lost to rain (though you could certainly argue that McGrath wasn't 100% fit for that game as well).

 

[Furball]

He took the worst 5-for I think I've ever seen anyone take in Test cricket at Old Trafford, virtually all his wickets were blokes caught on the fence slogging.

 

[Furball]

Wasn't the fastest, didn't get the most movement. He just got you out. All the ****ing time

That, and the way he very publicly backed himself. "Oh, it would be great to get Sherwin Campbell for my 299th and Lara for my 300th." Then goes ahead and ****ing does it, and takes Adams next ball for a hat-trick to boot. Or going into the 2005 Ashes on 499 and just casually nominates Trescothick as his 500th. Not a moment of self doubt that it might be a middle order batsman like Bell or Pietersen as the result of a nothing opening spell. Nope, I'm the opening bowler and I'm going to get the opening batsman out. I don't need to tell you what happened a couple of overs in do I?

There was an interesting moment in the feature where he mentions that the only time he's ever felt sorry for a batsman was in Atherton's final Test. He was getting **** all movement, Atherton kept playing and missing, so McGrath decided to go a wee bit straighter and Atherton immediately nicked off to Warne in the cordon. McGrath said in the interview that you could tell Atherton was gone mentally by that point because dismissing a batsman as good as he was shouldn't have been that easy.

I like the wee segment about going up against Border in a Shield game in 1993 or 1994. Think this was at the point where McGrath was new to Sydney and living in a caravan, turns up for the game in trousers that are barely long enough for him and Border's abusing the **** out of him in the middle. McGrath just responds by going round the wicket and getting Border to nick it to the cordon.

Honestly, the greatest ever.

 

[fredfertang]

That, and the way he very publicly backed himself. "Oh, it would be great to get Sherwin Campbell for my 299th and Lara for my 300th." Then goes ahead and ****ing does it, and takes Adams next ball for a hat-trick to boot. Or going into the 2005 Ashes on 499 and just casually nominates Trescothick as his 500th. Not a moment of self doubt that it might be a middle order batsman like Bell or Pietersen as the result of a nothing opening spell. Nope, I'm the opening bowler and I'm going to get the opening batsman out. I don't need to tell you what happened a couple of overs in do I?

There was an interesting moment in the feature where he mentions that the only time he's ever felt sorry for a batsman was in Atherton's final Test. He was getting **** all movement, Atherton kept playing and missing, so McGrath decided to go a wee bit straighter and Atherton immediately nicked off to Warne in the cordon. McGrath said in the interview that you could tell Atherton was gone mentally by that point because dismissing a batsman as good as he was shouldn't have been that easy.

I like the wee segment about going up against Border in a Shield game in 1993 or 1994. Think this was at the point where McGrath was new to Sydney and living in a caravan, turns up for the game in trousers that are barely long enough for him and Border's abusing the **** out of him in the middle. McGrath just responds by going round the wicket and getting Border to nick it to the cordon.

Honestly, the greatest ever.

Could never warm to the bloke - just an arrogant **** as far as I could see - bloody good at what he did and quite entitled to be arrogant, but a **** nevertheless