It's Tough Being Me - The Kevin Pietersen Story

[Pratters]

Also, it is not like he played 10 tests and doesn't have the temperament for it. He has played 100+ tests. Digging old graves doesn't do English cricket much good. Such a non progressive attitude to have.

 

[OverratedSanity]

How is trust an issue tho.

Do they really feel KP is going to run people out or shell catches?

It's different in a company where you feel someone could leak secrets to a rival and jump ship, or could backstab you on their way up the ladder. But it's hard to fathom a situation like that in Cricket, especially International cricket.

If he drops catches, runs people out, or fails with the bat, he just makes himself look bad. If England loses he looks bad. If he gets caught texting technical flaws of Joe Root to the Aussies he'll look bad.

The players in the dressing room may feel that KP will take what they say out of context and publish it in his next tell-all book; but if the players are so concerned about their public image then there is something wrong with the English Team culture. They should be focused on going out there and winning cricket matches. The rest isnt important or relevant. They should be shielded from the media and too busy working on their game to care about what KP is tweeting.

KP stands to gain nothing by giving less than 100% on the field. I don't understand how trust is an issue.

The "trust" issue doesn't have anything to do with him on the field.

It all comes down to textgate, really. They just think KP will do something like that again.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also, it is not like he played 10 tests and doesn't have the temperament for it. He has played 100+ tests. Digging old graves doesn't do English cricket much good. Such a non progressive attitude to have.

Ironically, England would have come off as very progressive if they'd just been smart and said that they have two brilliant youngsters in their 20s in Root and Ballance who will be the foundation of their plans over the next decade. They were just way too dumb and petty to say that.

 

[Stapel]

In short:

1- KP messes up the team spirit by being KP and is thrown out.
2- KP gets back in, and again messes up the team spirit by being KP, so gets thrown out again.
3- Some quasi-important dude at ECB hints at a KP-comeback, provided he scores FC runs.
4- KP decides to have a go at English FC-cricket, rather than the IPL.
5- ECB makes it clear that no matter the amount of runs, KP cannot be trusted to leave team spirit intact.
6- ECB offers KP a consulting role.

I can see why the ECB might be right, and regard line 3 as a simple mistake. But line 6 does change it all. It seems the ECB have gone completely mad!

 

[GIMH]

This is what I so strongly contest. I cannot see how Warne was ever a team player. The only contexts in which I can ever think that statement could possibly be somewhat valid would be when he was captaining Hampshire/Rajasthan/Melbourne (because he could mould them into the Cult of Warne very easily and he had what he wanted -- complete control), and when he was a young leggie under the original AB because Border didn't take **** from anyone and made sure you kept in line.


For the rest of his career, he was pretty plainly in it for himself and himself only -- but in a team sport you can only be so selfish before you start impacting upon the team negatively, and when that happens it's your balls on the public chopping block, and your image that gets destroyed. Both Warne and Pietersen have huge egos, and they knew they had to be performing in a team that was performing to keep the acclaim coming. There is no incentive for them to sabotage the team.

If Australia could trust Warne, England should be able to trust Pietersen. England don't, so he's not being selected. Australia did, so Warne was selected. The only substantive difference is the board's willingness to trust the genius player to add value to the team.

So, IMO:
1. There is no reason for there to be a trust issue, and the reasons for this 'trust issue' existing are pretty specious.
2. The ECB should have been in a better position to manage their players in the first place so that a 'trust issue' doesn't occur.
3. Hiring a guy who has history with KP, who clearly hates his guts and who clearly doesn't want him in the England team and immediately asking him to make a decision on whether or not to pick KP is a recipe for disaster. Especially when that isn't the only conflict of interest involved.


If your entire argument is that "trust issues are bad and a valid reason for non-selection", then fine. I accept that point -- if you can't trust a guy to do his job, you get someone else to do the job. But that isn't what you're arguing at all -- you're constantly trying to portray Shane Warne as being trustworthy and that the reasons why KP isn't trusted by the ECB are entirely valid and reasonable. You're falling into your own version of "see Point 1" with this constant defence of Warne as a team player and KP not being one.

Constant defence of Warne? People kept using him as an example so I just threw him into my post. hardly a constant defence.

You're hard work today, Dan. Disappointed. Warne is such a tiny aspect of what I was getting at - barely relevant to my wider point - and it's all you seem to want to talk about. cbf. Am out.

 

[sledger]

Oh man is this still going on? Boring.

 

[Furball]

No, but he could have easily pointed out how well Ballance and Root are going right now and how settled his batting lineup is. Not saying that sends a message, whether intentional or not, that KP would be in the side if he and Strauss got along.

Most English posters here have made that point quite well, that England's batting lineup right now is going pretty well, and they don't really need to bring back a 34 year old. It's stupid that the ECB director didn't have enough brains to say the same thing.

We've had Moeen Ali and Ben Stokes stinking up the joint with the bat, the idea that there's not room for KP in the middle order is nonsense.

 

[Antihippy]

Ali had the second highest english score in the match where you guys were punted by the windies, and would have kept going if he wasn't run out by cook too.

 

[GIMH]

We've had Moeen Ali and Ben Stokes stinking up the joint with the bat, the idea that there's not room for KP in the middle order is nonsense.

Both were of course picked as specialist batsmen

 

[OverratedSanity]

Both were of course picked as specialist batsmen

That doesn't mean they can't be dropped to bring in a vastly superior specialist bat to bolster the batting lineup. Lest we forget it's the batting which lost them their last test... not the bowling.

 

[Antihippy]

It was kinda both.

I think batting is the least of england's concerns. If they can find an opener that won't be dropped after 1-2 series they actually have a really good top 5 with a lot of batting to come. They need broad to not be so inconsistent, a third seamer that can actually either contain or take wickets instead of spraying things down the legside, and moeen ali to sort his **** out because he was all over the shop.

 

[four_or_six]

It's all good... the next few years are going to turn out like last time Strauss had to clean up after KP and Moores

 

[Furball]

Both were of course picked as specialist batsmen

Doesn't matter. Neither is currently good enough to bat in the top 6.

 

[honestbharani]

I get you, but the bolded part there...that's over-simplifying it. Attempting to justify ECB's decision based on what KP did after the decision was made, is entirely silly imo. Did you see anything in KP's behaviour after he was sacked that showed he had been "toxic" for team atmosphere? I sure didn't. All I saw was him being a dick. A dick who felt he didn't deserve to be dropped and reacted in a dickish manner, because, he's a dick.

Not to mention the number of England players who are not part of the "Strauss-Cook-Anderson-Broad-Swann" club who came out and said (surprise surprise) that he was NOT a bad influence on the team...

 

[honestbharani]

What a load of drivel from Stapel.. KP was not messing up team spirit when he was smashing 100s in India for fun and winning you the test series? Heck, every player who has been interviewed about KP since he was drafted back into the side has said how helpful he has been.. It is a load of rubbish and frankly, assumptions made on much less foothold than the ones about Strauss being biased and basically being picked to run an old boys joint with his buddies instead of an actual English "cricket" team.


I would LOVE to see every anti KP guy here explain the offer of that ODI cricket "consultant" role by Strauss to him? SEriously, you don't want him to bat for you in LO cricket and yet want him to advice? it is like in the Mahabharatha when the Pandavas get Lord Krishna but he cannot actually take part in the war...

 

[GIMH]

Not to mention the number of England players who are not part of the "Strauss-Cook-Anderson-Broad-Swann" club who came out and said (surprise surprise) that he was NOT a bad influence on the team...

Yeah everyone who wasn't in the half the non-KP team (in fact over half as you can most certainly add Prior to that list) never had a problem with him. What a small list of people.

 

[Top_Cat]

The trust issue is huge. The team needs to trust he'll put the team goals ahead of his own. It's not about just scoring a ton because, at best, he'll only do that once or twice a series anyway. No matter the level, they're still a team and when blokes are in it for themselves, the team suffers whereas guys, even ****s, who understand the social contract they sign when they join a team, raise the performance of those around them.

The ECB has handled this poorly but the bottom line is if England can't trust KP with all the intangibles, he shouldn't be picked. All the perpherial stuff would be far easier to forgive if he was doing the team thing right. England did, at one stage, know how to manage more aggressive personalities, KP had his most productive periods when the team was practically over-flowing with them. I reckon blokes like Vaughan being in charge are the missing piece.

 

[fredfertang]

KP is an obnoxious ****, but the one thing you can trust him to do is bat better than any other England qualified batsmen, and you can also put your trust in the fact that the Australians will be absolutely delighted that they won't be facing him this summer

 

[BoyBrumby]

Cluster**** or omnishambles? One can't quite decide.

At least we can all agree the ECB deserves some kind of award for the sending of telly novella level mixed messages. Colin says "it's all about runs, dude"; Kev nixes $250k, scores his runs (more in a CC innings than anyone else this century, in fact) and turns up to Andy's gaff with hair slicked back, a Johnny in his wallet and a bottle of medium priced white wine in his trembling hand only to be told "nah, it's trust. You, like, rily hurt me."

 

[NasserFan207]

From a cricket fans perspective the fact that KP can't play international cricket sucks so much.