wellAlbidarned
International Coach
In WI any semi-competent finger spinner who can hold a bat is worth his place. Mark "Averaging 50 in FC" Craig got a 5-fer on debut there ffs.
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***Official*** England in West Indies 2015
- Thread starter theegyptian
- Start date
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, but NZ 1st class is clearly much tougher for spinners than the county championships. Look at Jeets - he 'turns' into Jim Laker over there
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Well that was nice wasn't it? 
I find it interesting that all the talk here is about England's shortcomings where spin is concerned as if that's the only reason why they lost this test 
. The fact is we had them in trouble several times during this series and contrived to let them off the hook. The one time we kept the pressure on they folded. And it's ironic how the English commentators kept saying how "fragile" our batting line-up was but if you look at the series in it's entirety we done just as well with the bat as England did and that's quite encouraging from our point of view considering England's top order are vastly more experienced than ours.
The win also gives us some satisfaction when you consider Colin Graves's disparaging comments beforehand and Otis Gibson grinning from ear to ear every time a windies wicket fell...TAKE THAT!!
Anyway now to the ratings..
Brathwaite= The boy has got a ton in his last four series and is just a top class talent. Yes he still needs to work on some things but if he's this good now one wonders what he'll be doing age 25?
Smith= Hopefully the last time he's seen in the great WI shirt...just not good enough.
Bravo= Was getting starts and not carrying on, probably due to not playing a lot of first class cricket in a while. But the more he batted the better he got and that last innings was just majestic...he really showed his class there.
Samuels= Another up and down series for Marlon..the salute to Stokes was simply legendary
. He scored a good ton and his bowling in this test really gave us some control.
Chanderpaul= Has been a hero for us over the years but the end looks near
Blackwood= What a talent this young man is? Yes he can be rash sometimes but his positive approach at the crease is a joy to watch and he pretty much won us this game with his brilliant knock in the first innings..at 23 we'd like to think he will only get better and he's now part of the "three B's" aka Brathwaite, Bravo and Blackwood who will hopefully be the core of our top order for years to come.
Ramdin= His captaincy left a lot to be desired at times but scored a decent 50 and took some crucial catches in this win.
Holder= Another top talent...saved us with the bat in the first innings and was very good with the ball in this win.
Taylor= Sensational in this series..really bowled well.
Roach= Not fit...done well first game but the flat decks in the first two games took it's toll tbh..when on form he's still the best we have though.
Gabriel= Gabby has a habit of nicking vital wickets...really improving with each test he plays.
Benn= Absolute waste of space..hopefully that's him finished at this level
Bishoo= Done very well in the sole test he played though he did bowl too many 4 balls for my liking
Permaul= This lad is only 25 and was the best spinner in our first class competition...done very well in this game and i hope he keeps his spot now. Especially when he can also bat well down the order.
Hope= Tough test for the young man but he's not an opener. He was one of the best batsmen in our first class competition and done even better than Blackwood did in his breakout year with Jamaica a year ago so one would hope Shai takes this experience ad learns from it.
All in all i'm absolutely delighted with what i've seen here and the truth is even though the likes of Hendrix might believe we have a "mediocre side" the fact is we're in a rebuilding phase and half the side are 23 or under so we can only get better at the end of the day.
Clearly moving forward getting an competent opener alongside Kraigg and perhaps a spinning allrounder is needed .
I'd also like to add that there's even more talent to come aswell..Beaton, Pooran, Dowrich, Cornwall, Tage Chanderpaul to name a few...so the future could look very bright if we nurture these kids properly.
P.S. Oh and my good friend Marc7118 was always quick to remind me how WI hadn't won a test against a top side in a while so I'd like to dedicate that win to you buddy
I find it interesting that all the talk here is about England's shortcomings where spin is concerned as if that's the only reason why they lost this test . The fact is we had them in trouble several times during this series and contrived to let them off the hook. The one time we kept the pressure on they folded. And it's ironic how the English commentators kept saying how "fragile" our batting line-up was but if you look at the series in it's entirety we done just as well with the bat as England did and that's quite encouraging from our point of view considering England's top order are vastly more experienced than ours.The win also gives us some satisfaction when you consider Colin Graves's disparaging comments beforehand and Otis Gibson grinning from ear to ear every time a windies wicket fell...TAKE THAT!!
Anyway now to the ratings..
Brathwaite= The boy has got a ton in his last four series and is just a top class talent. Yes he still needs to work on some things but if he's this good now one wonders what he'll be doing age 25?
Smith= Hopefully the last time he's seen in the great WI shirt...just not good enough.
Bravo= Was getting starts and not carrying on, probably due to not playing a lot of first class cricket in a while. But the more he batted the better he got and that last innings was just majestic...he really showed his class there.
Samuels= Another up and down series for Marlon..the salute to Stokes was simply legendary
. He scored a good ton and his bowling in this test really gave us some control.Chanderpaul= Has been a hero for us over the years but the end looks near
Blackwood= What a talent this young man is? Yes he can be rash sometimes but his positive approach at the crease is a joy to watch and he pretty much won us this game with his brilliant knock in the first innings..at 23 we'd like to think he will only get better and he's now part of the "three B's" aka Brathwaite, Bravo and Blackwood who will hopefully be the core of our top order for years to come.
Ramdin= His captaincy left a lot to be desired at times but scored a decent 50 and took some crucial catches in this win.
Holder= Another top talent...saved us with the bat in the first innings and was very good with the ball in this win.
Taylor= Sensational in this series..really bowled well.
Roach= Not fit...done well first game but the flat decks in the first two games took it's toll tbh..when on form he's still the best we have though.
Gabriel= Gabby has a habit of nicking vital wickets...really improving with each test he plays.
Benn= Absolute waste of space..hopefully that's him finished at this level
Bishoo= Done very well in the sole test he played though he did bowl too many 4 balls for my liking
Permaul= This lad is only 25 and was the best spinner in our first class competition...done very well in this game and i hope he keeps his spot now. Especially when he can also bat well down the order.
Hope= Tough test for the young man but he's not an opener. He was one of the best batsmen in our first class competition and done even better than Blackwood did in his breakout year with Jamaica a year ago so one would hope Shai takes this experience ad learns from it.
All in all i'm absolutely delighted with what i've seen here and the truth is even though the likes of Hendrix might believe we have a "mediocre side" the fact is we're in a rebuilding phase and half the side are 23 or under so we can only get better at the end of the day.
Clearly moving forward getting an competent opener alongside Kraigg and perhaps a spinning allrounder is needed .
I'd also like to add that there's even more talent to come aswell..Beaton, Pooran, Dowrich, Cornwall, Tage Chanderpaul to name a few...so the future could look very bright if we nurture these kids properly.
P.S. Oh and my good friend Marc7118 was always quick to remind me how WI hadn't won a test against a top side in a while so I'd like to dedicate that win to you buddy
Last edited:
cnerd123
likes this
I think every Test side needs atleast one competent spinner.
In either case it's hard for a Test side to put 4, let alone 5, competent quick bowlers on the field. Is Moeen honestly worse than Jordan or Stokes? Maybe only NZ or Aus could field a decent 5 man pace attack; most countries would have atleast one spinner if they were picking 'Best five bowlers regardless of bowling style'.
In any case a competent spinner is better than a competent quick in so many circumstances it would be crazy to pick the latter over the former.
In either case it's hard for a Test side to put 4, let alone 5, competent quick bowlers on the field. Is Moeen honestly worse than Jordan or Stokes? Maybe only NZ or Aus could field a decent 5 man pace attack; most countries would have atleast one spinner if they were picking 'Best five bowlers regardless of bowling style'.
In any case a competent spinner is better than a competent quick in so many circumstances it would be crazy to pick the latter over the former.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
From what I saw of Hope, and admittedly one Test is not a great way to judge someone, making him open in Test cricket right now is going to do him absolutely no good. I'd be opening with Leon Johnson and looking to bring Hope in at five or six in the near future when Chanderpaul hangs them up.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Yep he's no opener!!..bats around five for Barbados but i guess the selectors just wanted rid of Smith in this match. Shai will learn from this experience and hopefully cement his place in the side over the coming year.
Maximas
Cricketer Of The Year
I like the way he is able to punch strongly off the back foot, that should serve him well on bouncier pitches but he simply doesn't make a good enough commitment forward when it's required. He'll be murdered when the ball really swings and seams around if he continues to try and camp on the back foot
cnerd123
likes this
What bother me with WI winning this Test and drawing this series is that the ****heads at WICB will pat each other on the back and talk of a job well done and no one -not the fans, the players, the sponsors or the ICC- will question them and their incompetence for another year or two to come.
They'll just talk about 'Potential' and 'New Talent' and look back at this win as evidence of 'a new Chapter', only for the WICB to continue being bumbling idiots for another couple of years while the WI continue to rack up mediocre performances. Their domestic structure will continue to go nowhere with ****ty pitches and ****ty pay for all involved, more and more youngsters will stay away from the game, and the next-gen of cricketers will be mistreated and disrespected like their seniors.
And then we will come a whole circle with another string of horrible performances, another players revolt and, and another bunch of bright eyed talented youngsters stealing a win over the perennially terrible England to distract everyone from it.
They'll just talk about 'Potential' and 'New Talent' and look back at this win as evidence of 'a new Chapter', only for the WICB to continue being bumbling idiots for another couple of years while the WI continue to rack up mediocre performances. Their domestic structure will continue to go nowhere with ****ty pitches and ****ty pay for all involved, more and more youngsters will stay away from the game, and the next-gen of cricketers will be mistreated and disrespected like their seniors.
And then we will come a whole circle with another string of horrible performances, another players revolt and, and another bunch of bright eyed talented youngsters stealing a win over the perennially terrible England to distract everyone from it.
OverratedSanity
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The way Hope plays across the line to full deliveries reminds me a lot of Bairstow.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
What are your thoughts on who should open with Brathwaite? What do you make of my Johnson suggestion?
I thought it was pretty odd he was dropped in the first place. He bats three in domestic cricket but he leaves well, opened on Test debut (against Bangladesh, but still, selectors saw him as an opening option) did reasonably well at #3 in South Africa and had a pretty good domestic season.
flibbertyjibber
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cnerd123
likes this
All the more reason to enjoy him while he's here. They go to Australia to June and who knows how long it will be after that till they win another Test?
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Well that was nice wasn't it?
The win also gives us some satisfaction when you consider Colin Graves's disparaging comments beforehand and Otis Gibson grinning from ear to ear every time a windies wicket fell...TAKE THAT!!
P.S. Oh and my good friend Marc7118 was always quick to remind me how WI hadn't won a test against a top side in a while so I'd like to dedicate that win to you buddy
Not convinced that you beat a top side yesterday ....
But you're dead right in your analysis. England's batting is shockingly fragile given we have two guys with about 50 test hundreds between them, two others currently boasting spectacular test averages and a number of guys in the lower middle order who are supposed to be able to bat. We all know about Cook's track record in recent years, but I really think Bell gets something of a free ride at times. Or at any rate he holds onto his place by 'doing enough in the absence of viable alternatives', which will probably be written on his gravestone.
And yes, Graves is a charmless ****. Seeing his comments thrown back at him was probably the one aspect of this performance that I actually enjoyed.
OverratedSanity
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He was outstanding.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
He'll probably be in the squad against Aus and has a chance i guess. It would have been great to have Powell in good form but he's still awol!!..was playing for Murali's club side in Sri-lanka a few months ago and is set to go to England now play club cricket we hear..he's been butting heads with the selectors/board over this (taking a break from international cricket) issue and it hasn't been sorted yet
.I'd look at Johnson Charles right now tbh...he's aggressive and has improved a lot recently. With Charles he might fail a few times but if he gets going suddenly we could be 70/0 after ten overs...he would also compliment Kraigg very well i think.
OverratedSanity
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I'd rather have Hope playing out of position opening than even being to consider Charles. The guy is so far away from being test standard it's not even funny.He'll probably be in the squad against Aus and has a chance i guess. It would have been great to have Powell in good form but he's still awol!!..was playing for Murali's club side in Sri-lanka a few months ago and is set to go to England now play club cricket we hear..he's been butting heads with the selectors/board over this (taking a break from international cricket) issue and it hasn't been sorted yet
I'd look at Johnson Charles right now tbh...he's aggressive and has improved a lot recently. With Charles he might fail a few times but if he gets going suddenly we could be 70/0 after ten overs...he would also compliment Kraigg very well i think.