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***Official*** England in West Indies 2015

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
This is the kind of attitude why England hasn't produced leg spinners of callibre in so much time. You bowl a bit erratically and you are considered a **** bowler.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
On the face of it England have one Test Class opening batsman, 3 good middle order batsman as long as the wicket is flat, and one Test Class bowler. There is nothing out there in the counties that are any better and no South African rejects to poach. Can't wait for the Ashes.

It's going to be more interesting to see if any of the new West Indies side develop into Test players.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Geoff Boycott has 22 test tons but that doesn't mean he's a better batsman than me. Also looking at the stats, Rashid has bowled like twice the overs of Moeen. I think you also forget that the sole purpose of a spinner isn't really to take wickets ffs
Moeen not bowling half as much as Rashid (who isn't considered a specialist). Just speaks for itself really. Moeen hasn't really bowled that much. Has had a good year and suddenly he is considered good enough to take on the responsibility of the main spinner on wickets with spin.
 

Viscount Tom

International Debutant
Moeen's come on in leaps and bounds these past few years, the bulk of his wickets have come in those few years, don't get me wrong I think people are been too quick to dismiss Radish abilities as a spinner on the basis of games that they saw quite a while back but there's no way he is a better spinner than Ali.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Haha you wouldn't really put it past them though, would you?

I can just see it now -- he comes in for Tredwell and has an average game on the back of questionable fitness and morons like Botham start talking about how the selectors were made for not selecting a "specialist spinner" (even though Moeen is the better bowler) and talk about how harsh it was to drop Tredwell after "doing so well" (ie. outbowled by Root in the fourth innings when he was really needed..) in the first Test.
I hate this post so much.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Sorry, but if we have any aspirations of performing at a high level in the International game then you have to be aiming to beat one of the weakest opponents, home or away. How many of our players have performed at the levels you would expect of them? Had they done so, would we have won the series? Is that acceptable?

Graves may not have come up with a media-sanitised soundbite, but he's a Yorkshireman and you can't expect much else on that front. We've been railing against corporate speak and bland nothingness in the Moores era and yet a blunt challenge to our own side - and indeed an admission that we're not as good as we'd like to be - is unacceptable? Do we think the Australians will be hand-wringing when someone tells the world they're coming here to hammer a "mediocre" England?

We weren't good enough. Again. We've done that a lot recently and nothing has changed.

So maybe this time something might?
Yep. Graves was correct. For England to be close to where they want to be then they should easily beat this West Indies team. Before this series I said it would say more about England then WI and I think that has been the case. England are not a very good team at the moment with 4, generously 5, established Test players. Too many ordinary players IMO and jumbled ideas.

I am not saying that WI are terrible but they should be a speed bump for any team targeting the top 2 in Test cricket.
 
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morgieb

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:laugh: Nice.

Great result for the WIndies.

Surely England can't keep on picking no-rounders and specialist fielders?
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
"Moeen isn't England's best spinner because he can bat too" is right up there with "any 'keeper who averages 40 with the bat must be a worse gloveman than the guy who averages 20".

Seriously, Moeen is a genuinely competent off spinner who just so happens to be a better batsman than the usual competent off spinner. Shakib doesn't stop being Bangladesh's best spinner just because he can bat too.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Also lol @ Rashid being a 'specialist' spinner when Moeen apparently isn't.

Pratters, how do you categorise Scott Borthwick?
 

Spikey

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how come england don't just do an australia and pick a new-ish spinner who maybe hasnt played many games but looks good instead of tredwell
 

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
Remember when Scott Borthwick played a test? And sometimes I wonder why I follow football more than cricket these days...
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Remember when Scott Borthwick played a test? And sometimes I wonder why I follow football more than cricket these days...
I like Borthwick :(

Honestly, with the runs he's stacking up for Durham, he's starting to look like a not-terrible option if a few batting contenders fall over injured. The English Smitteh, only not as awesome.
 

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