New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Zinzan]

Basically the only argument that SA would be a better match up is relying on AB to have a day out.

It appears so, you certainly couldn't cite world cup form or previous form at the MCG, that's for sure.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It appears so, you certainly couldn't cite world cup form or previous form at the MCG, that's for sure.

To be fair, it's about a one in three chance!

 

[Xuhaib]

Not sure that's all that logical given NZ test cricket has arguably been on the rise more than their short-form stuff of late.

I think we all agree Australian cricket looks very strong again, although let's not forget they were at home in the WC and NZ were far more impressive in their away series against Pakistan than Australia were. That aside, I'm happy to agree Australia look to be one of the top teams.

I'm not so sure how you give SA & India a pass though, and not NZ. I mean India have been dreadful in Test cricket and have slipped right down the ratings. For SA, the likes of Steyn won't be around for ever, and I'm not convinced he's the bowler he was 3-4 years ago.

It really does seem like a knee-jerk reaction when only really McCullum is likely to retire soon, and while KW won't be quite as aggressive as a skipper, I do think he'll be a very strong one. But most of the talent in NZ are youngish players likely to get better.

Not sure you really put much thought into that post tbh Xuhaib, rather than talking down NZ based on one limp performance and not looking at the bigger picture of where this team is placed across all forms in the medium term.

I am not talking down NZ based on one performance my opinion is based on combination of NZ history and my personal take on the current side. Batting wise you guys still worry me team will remain too dependent on Williamson and Taylor. Iam not putting Brendon among the top echelons of world class batsman based on18 months this is a guy who averaged under 35 for a decade and I believe he will go back to that level. Latham and Corey are impressive buy have a lot to proof. In Watling I agree you have a world class keeper among the best in the world and bowling also has a good future though Milne and henry are also not proven yet. I think a lot of NZ future fortunes will depend on how Anderson, Latham, Henry and Milne come up if these guys can realize their potential I have no reason to believe NZ can't be among the top 3 sides in the world but till then to big them up is a bit premature methinks.

 

[Xuhaib]

If we're talking test cricket, best we wait until they actually starting winning before thrusting them into the top tier. I mean I get they've had some tough away tours of late, but their current Test ranking is still 6th or 7th, so there's nothing obvious to me to suggest they're suddenly going to pull clear of the likes of NZ, Pakistan or even England. If NZ manage to beat England in a couple of months, they could very well move to 3rd in the test rankings. A long way from tier 2 imho.

Indian batsman over the past 4 away tours have proved that they can hold their own in tough conditions so one can be reasonably confident that they will perform even better at home especially since their spinners who were total non factor on away tours will bowl well and after a long time there batsmen will get to bat without any scoreboard pressure.One can surely be more confident in predicting a brighter future for Indian then NZ at this stage.

SA i give it you their future is uncertain as there depth does not look that great atleast till what we have seen but there core players are still at an age where they can go for another 5 years which should be enough to keep then in the top 3 for the next few years atleast.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Indian batsman over the past 4 away tours have proved that they can hold their own in tough conditions so one can be reasonably confident that they will perform even better at home especially since their spinners who were total non factor on away tours will bowl well and after a long time there batsmen will get to bat without any scoreboard pressure.One can surely be more confident in predicting a brighter future for Indian then NZ at this stage.

I'm inclined to agree, but guys like Rahane and Kohli are actually better players of pace than spin.

 

[Xuhaib]

I'm inclined to agree, but guys like Rahane and Kohli are actually better players of pace than spin.

they are not as good vs spin as the likes of Sachin, Sehwag were but they are still pretty good and wil be better on home tracks most of their away tours prep were probably focused on handling the pace bowlers hence the likes of Moin Ali went under the radar during the preparation period at home they will be more equipped handling the spin I feel also the biggest factor will be at home they will not start their innings already behind a million runs as they usually have to on away tours.

 

[Zinzan]

I am not talking down NZ based on one performance my opinion is based on combination of NZ history and my personal take on the current side. Batting wise you guys still worry me team will remain too dependent on Williamson and Taylor. Iam not putting Brendon among the top echelons of world class batsman based based on18 months this is a guy who averaged under 35 for a decade and I believe he will go back to that level. Latham and Corey are impressive buy have a lot to proof. In Watling I agree you have a world class keeper among the best in the world and bowling also has a good future though Milne and henry are also not proven yet. I think a lot of NZ future fortunes will depend on how Anderson, Latham, Henry and Milne come up if these guys can realize their potential I have no reason to believe NZ can't be among the top 3 sides in the world but till then to big them up is a bit premature methinks.

But that's a different argument altogether. Nobody was 'bigging' NZ up. If was you who was bigging up India & I can't see what that is based on right at the moment.

 

[Zinzan]

Indian batsman over the past 4 away tours have proved that they can hold their own in tough conditions so one can be reasonably confident that they will perform even better at home

But that's a total straw-man argument. Who cares if some of the batsmen did well, they lost each series. Of course they'll be hard to beat at home, most good sides are, including NZ, as their recent record suggests. So really there's no real differentiator for India at all. The only one is NZ have done slightly better away from home of late.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yep, there's more signs pointing to NZ getting to the top 2-3 than India. We're mediocre unless we prove we're even good at home. They have the bowlers and we don't. In tests, it really is that simple.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

And 'butthurt' is about eloquent enough to describe the thought and opinion police lurking who don't like those opinions that don't align with the commonly accepted one here but thanks for briefing me on appropriate linguistics anyway, don't know what i would do without it.
.

Yeah it's not possible that your opinion is terrible, other posters are just trying to oppress you because the truth is so painful. Jesus.

 

[hendrix]

butthurt is the worst ****ing term ever. Just don't use it.

 

[artvandalay]

Yeah it's not possible that your opinion is terrible, other posters are just trying to oppress you because the truth is so painful. Jesus.

Just because more people share an opinion, it doesn't make that the irrefutable truth.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Just because more people share an opinion, it doesn't make that the irrefutable truth.

That's nice but I never claimed that. You made a argument based on no evidence (believe me I've done the same thing too many times) with no way to prove or disprove it and many are calling you out on it.

 

[JediNudist]

I am not talking down NZ based on one performance my opinion is based on combination of NZ history and my personal take on the current side. Batting wise you guys still worry me team will remain too dependent on Williamson and Taylor. Iam not putting Brendon among the top echelons of world class batsman based on18 months this is a guy who averaged under 35 for a decade and I believe he will go back to that level. Latham and Corey are impressive buy have a lot to proof. In Watling I agree you have a world class keeper among the best in the world and bowling also has a good future though Milne and henry are also not proven yet. I think a lot of NZ future fortunes will depend on how Anderson, Latham, Henry and Milne come up if these guys can realize their potential I have no reason to believe NZ can't be among the top 3 sides in the world but till then to big them up is a bit premature methinks.

Yeah but Maxwell for Aus was terrible for ages. yet it seems they rely on maxwell more than ever to finish off an innings.

 

[Hurricane]

Just because more people share an opinion, it doesn't make that the irrefutable truth.

Correct - but based on common sense and most decision making heuristics we give more credibility to widely held ideas. I will blab on about it because I am bored.
There is a concept called external validity - it holds that if many academic papers have reached the same conclusion even if the evidence in all the studies was not sturdy then you can be more likely to believe it is true. So it with people's opinions when many people believe the world is flat then it is more likely to be true and you would be justified if you lived in the 15th century for holding this belief.
Another example I will give is juries. By appointing 12 people to make a decision we believe that the shared opinion of the group will hold validity.

There is a comment I could make about Politics and democracy usually resulting in a sane and competent government being elected but I won't go there as I don't want this to end up being about PEWS' political beliefs which it probably will if I make that point in an extended fashion.
But in conclusion yes there is nothing wrong with your well worded post although if you were feeling loquacious you could have added a nuance or two.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Well now the dust has settled after, what we'd all agree was an epic beating in the world cup final, i wonder how my Black cap friends are feeling about the future of NZ cricket? The question hanging over this kiwi team is were they just experiencing an extended "indian summer" so to speak? And will that final defeat dent their confidence to the extent that it pushes them back into that mediocrity bubble they resided in just two years ago when they were swept aside in the Caribbean, lost heavily in India, lost home and away to SA, got rolled out for 50 in England etc etc?

Personally i don't think they will be that bad but i see them like a talented boxer who was once unbeaten, takes a massive beating and is on his way back now...will he be the same? It depends on his resolve.

Looking at some of the plunket shield stats for this season and it's interesting to see that most of the best performers are well over 30? that's not good where the future is concerned.

The duo of Southee and Boult will more than often keep things interesting but the batting still has some questions to answer imo. Williamson has had a good time but his technical flaws were exposed in the world cup, while Taylor seems to be on a downward curve right now. Baz will be Baz...score one stunning innings every now and then and fail in most of the others. Latham started well but again was kind of exposed against SL and the other opening spot still remains problematic from what i can tell.

Neesham and Anderson are average imo but Jimmy has the ability to get a decent score when the team really needs it. Watling i agree he's been very good but until he scores big against the top sides i'm not sure i'd call him "world class" just yet.

Craig will be under pressure to keep taking wickets too...he's had his ups and down but in England he will have a chance to show that he's not just a back up dancer to Southee and Boult and he can actually sing his own tune. As for Sodhi!!!..i better digress.

All in all Hesson will have to rally the troops now and look to continue the good test form!!..it's gonna be interesting to see how they do.

 

[OverratedSanity]

So everyone who has had a couple of slightly below par matches is exposed or found out?

 

[GGG]

*grabs popcorn*

 

[hendrix]

yeah that was straight up trolling, no other way to describe it.

 

[Athlai]

And banned.