4th Quarter Final - New Zealand v West Indies (21st March)

[hendrix]

I would prefer we bat first.

 

[Flem274*]

Don't disagree with the fundamental point though. Ireland may have a decent - near international standard - batting line-up but their bowling is just an absolute dog's breakfast, close to the worst in the entire competition. The Windies aren't a great team, but even now they're a much better side man-for-man than Ireland are.

Ireland are odi standard with their batting and if the windies were better they would have defended 300, especially since bowling is their stroNg suit.

The irish top 4 is flat out better than the windies top four. The windies have much better bowling though as well, dockrell excepted.

 

[Athlai]

Ireland are odi standard with their batting and if the windies were better they would have defended 300, especially since bowling is their stroNg suit.

The irish top 4 is flat out better than the windies top four. The windies have much better bowling though as well, dockrell excepted.

Come off it, every team has bad days. WI would defend that more often than not.

 

[Bahnz]

Ireland are odi standard with their batting and if the windies were better they would have defended 300, especially since bowling is their stroNg suit.

The irish top 4 is flat out better than the windies top four. The windies have much better bowling though as well, dockrell excepted.

What exactly do you mean by ODI standard? Setting definitional issues aside, I still think it would be a stretch to say that Ireland's batting would be ranked any higher than maybe 8th or 9th in this tournament (my ranking would be: AUS, IND, SRL, NZL, SAF, BAN, PAK, WID, IRE/ENG - and even then the only reason why it's close between Ireland and England is because Ireland are generally smarter about how they bat).

Anyway, the argument that WI aren't a better side because they couldn't defend 300 is just silly. The nature of sport is that sometimes teams play badly and get beaten by less talented sides - and such upsets are especially likely early in a tournament when teams are still adjusting to conditions.

 

[Cruxdude]

IMO Gayle is not going to be a factor in this game. He is past it and no way is he surviving past Southee and Boult's opening spell. WI hopes rest on their lower middle order biffing some runs after Samuels and maybe Ramdin steady the boat. If they can get 270 batting first it is game on.

 

[Flem274*]

Cbf. If you think the west indies are a level above ireland I cant see how you can see it. Gayle isnt gayle anymore evenif he creams us on saturday. Samuels is feast or famine because of his technique and smith, charles...these are not good plauers. Had they sent out their best side and in form they would be wuality but they're not. They probably have a gun performance in there still but itsa one in five games thing.

Ireland were the better team because they had the better batting and their ****ebowling kept it somewhat in reach. Dem haters man.

 

[Bahnz]

Ireland's batting wasn't better on the whole. You can probably make the case that Ireland's top 4 - specifically the presence of Joyce, Niall O'Brien and Porterfield - are as good if not better than their WI counterparts. But WI have considerably more quality in their middle and lower order (guys like Sammy, Simmons, Ramdin and Holder are better than their Irish counterparts) - and the small difference that exists in the overall batting quality is completely swamped by the enormous gulf in the two bowling departments anyway.

 

[JediNudist]

That was a year ago and Windies missing several players from then

 

[JediNudist]

Ireland's batting wasn't better on the whole. You can probably make the case that Ireland's top 4 - specifically the presence of Joyce, Niall O'Brien and Porterfield - are as good if not better than their WI counterparts. But WI have considerably more quality in their middle and lower order (guys like Sammy, Simmons, Ramdin and Holder are better than their Irish counterparts) - and the small difference that exists in the overall batting quality is completely swamped by the enormous gulf in the two bowling departments anyway.

Ed Joyce would make a strong case to play for the Blackcaps. Problem with Ireland is their batting is good but their bowling is rubbish. Walk in the park for Pakistan getting 230.

 

[JediNudist]

Please don't say things like this! WI trounced us in a recent ODI played in NZ

Yeah but that was over a year ago and Windies missing several players such as Edwards , Narine , Deonarine , Rampaul , Dwayne Bravo from that series. Southee , Boult , MIlne and Vettori were not playing that series either.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Come off it, every team has bad days. WI would defend that more often than not.

Perhaps, but the West Indies were the worst team in every facet of the game in that Nelson match vs. Ireland. Ireland's bowling would also look much better with Murtagh and Rankin available; it's their second string seam attack, really.

 

[JediNudist]

West Indies are pretty rubbish. Lost to minnow Ireland and yeah they beat Pakistan but in truth Pakistan were thrashed by NZ and are pretty up and down.

Windies got owned by India's popgun attack. Have an opener in Smith averaging 15 for the tournament and 18 overall. Gayle apart from 200 against a club level bowling attack has been averaging 20 for the tournament , plus he has a dicky back now and will be rolled out on Saturday with painkillers.
Johnson Charles is no better than Smith as an opener. Marlon Samuels not to bad but apart from him I cant think of a single Windies batsman in any sort of form. Bowling attack minus Narine is pretty ordinary apart from Holder.
If Blackcaps win toss they will put Windies in and try and roll their brittle batting lineup for not much.

 

[Niall]

Zim werent unlucky at all. The zoom in showed no movement and it was justa shadow.

Why are people forgetting the no ball of Wilson? And nope it is not bad luck if you drop people, its just bad cricket, all round. No sympathy.

W
Johnson Charles is no better than Smith as an opener. Marlon Samuels not to bad but apart from him I cant think of a single Windies batsman in any sort of form. Bowling attack minus Narine is pretty ordinary apart from Holder.
If Blackcaps win toss they will put Windies in and try and roll their brittle batting lineup for not much.

Charles is better than Smith but not saying much. How are you forgetting Jerome Taylor? He has taken more wickets than Southee and Vettori, only one behind Boult. Not exactly a mug.

 

[JediNudist]

Why are people forgetting the no ball of Wilson? And nope it is not bad luck if you drop people, its just bad cricket, all round. No sympathy.



Charles is better than Smith but not saying much. How are you forgetting Jerome Taylor? He has taken more wickets than Southee and Vettori, only one behind Boult. Not exactly a mug.

Yeah Jeromes bowled well. The only decent performance from the Windies was against Pakistan. Both teams scratching for form.Windies got in on a a good pitch and Pakistan self destructed chasing 300.

 

[Athlai]

Perhaps, but the West Indies were the worst team in every facet of the game in that Nelson match vs. Ireland. Ireland's bowling would also look much better with Murtagh and Rankin available; it's their second string seam attack, really.

Yeah I definitely rate the Irish batting outfit but I'd say Ireland were 1 in 3 to bring down 300 against them. Ireland have a batting lineup approximately as strong as Bangers a few months ago. Good, getting there but not something you'd necessarily back to be favourites chasing 300 against a non-minnow attack.

If they sort out their bowling they'll be serious contenders very soon.

 

[Flem274*]

Ireland's batting wasn't better on the whole. You can probably make the case that Ireland's top 4 - specifically the presence of Joyce, Niall O'Brien and Porterfield - are as good if not better than their WI counterparts. But WI have considerably more quality in their middle and lower order (guys like Sammy, Simmons, Ramdin and Holder are better than their Irish counterparts) - and the small difference that exists in the overall batting quality is completely swamped by the enormous gulf in the two bowling departments anyway.

There is a very big gap between the Irish top four and the current West Indian top four. Gayle will make me tastle it so hard on the weekend but that WI top four is playing like absolute mud and for most of them it's not going to be reversed. Smith and Charles just aren't that great, Gayle is fighting hard but his back and his age are screwing him over and Samuels can't decide whether he's a god or a hack.

I agree on the allrounders. Sammy and Russell hurt the bowling but help the batting.

I know I sound like your average mid-2000s Aussie casual proclaiming no NZer would even make Aussie shield cricket but this West Indian side, like all sides missing their best players, is not better than Ireland or Bangladesh. Replace Baz with a 41 year old version of himself, no Vettori, randomly make Adam Milne captain, no Kane and Ross and make us entirely reliant on Corey and Ronchi to score runs and Ireland could chase what we set too (especially since it would probably be 150).

They still have quality players so they can win this quarter final (I think Jerome Taylor is the guy we should be most scared of because he is class) but we've missed out on seeing a team like Edwards (wasn't bad a year ago), Gayle, Chanderpaul (idgaf that he's slow, he can bat. why the **** doesn't he play ODIs anymore?), Bravo, Simmons/Samuels, Bravo, Ramdin, Holder, Taylor, Roach, Narine

Now that's a scary team.

The West Indies can win on Saturday, but they should be so much more than that.

 

[Niall]

Yeah Jeromes bowled well. The only decent performance from the Windies was against Pakistan. Both teams scratching for form.Windies got in on a a good pitch and Pakistan self destructed chasing 300.

Yeah, some LOL shots from Pakistan, but Taylor was gun in that game. I am not saying he will kill NZ, heck his career is been so inconsistent, he is probably due a hammering, but he can be dangerous.

I think Samuels and probably Ramdin will be key, as if they can bat through and provide a platform for the hitters, they could set a score.

I'd be interested to see how NZ would do in that scenario as Russell and Sammy if they have some runs would be a serious test of their death bowling.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah I definitely rate the Irish batting outfit but I'd say Ireland were 1 in 3 to bring down 300 against them. Ireland have a batting lineup approximately as strong as Bangers a few months ago. Good, getting there but not something you'd necessarily back to be favourites chasing 300 against a non-minnow attack.

If they sort out their bowling they'll be serious contenders very soon.

Tamim is the only bloke I'd pick in the Irish top three.

Bangladeshi batting just keeps going though, whereas Ireland are like a mini-Sri Lanka with their reliance on the top four.

 

[Athlai]

The irish need the Banglashi pace attack.

#lovinit

 

[Flem274*]

The irish need the Banglashi pace attack.

#lovinit

Bangla need Dockrell ahead of Taijul (and both ahead of Kayes)

#worldgonemad