Moving forward what type of side should England pick in ODI cricket?

[Prince EWS]

It was hardly crap compared to the majority of his peers tbh.

I do think it was kind of inconsistent that he never played, but I also do think it was right that he never played; just a lot of others also shouldn't have.

 

[Spikey]

ok but **** ben stokes.

i'd be open to Morgan batting in the top 3 tbh, sorta in the vein of some of your previous posts. if it doesn't work move him back down one year or two later.

 

[Zinzan]

From their WC squad, I like;

Hales
Bell
Taylor (Root)
Root (Taylor)
Ali
Buttler
Morgan
Woakes
Jordon
Finn
Anderson

 

[Spikey]

pick an Overton twin already tbh

 

[Hurricane]

How much time to people want to give Bell? He's played three world cups and 160 ODIs. He's awful under any kind of pressure. For all the positive play of the tri series when he got to the world cup he went back into his shell and played defensively. Haq bowling 40mph at him with mid off up - Bell easily good enough to hit him over mid off but instead just knocked the ball into the legside (9 off 19 balls). I can't believe there was anyone who thought that he was going to score 130* yesterday and get England over the line. There was an inevitably as the runrate was increasing that Bell's dismissal was imminent. The last couple of months have been a microcosm of his career. Some glimpses of progress then regresses back under pressure into mediocrity.

A career record of 666 runs in 20 matches @ 33.3 avg @ 70.9 sr with no hundreds in world cups (+ very similar champions trophy record) is as clear a proof as you need that he's terrible under pressure. If he hasn't cracked it by now he never will. He's England's most senior player and England needed more from him. Root has as many hundreds as Bell in ODI cricket.

The one area where England have some decent potential options in ODI cricket is top order bats. Vince, Roy, Hales and Lees in a year or two. Vince and Roy both did well on the lions tour of sa and both have done decently in domestic od cricket for a while. You've gotta give these guys a chance. Roy for my money in the last year has really improved quite a bit. They could easily fail but I'd rather run the risk of them failing than continue with Bell who you know is average.

Great Post and the blackcaps improvement came about when the best payers stepped it up a notch. However I would only see the sense of dropping Bell if it is part of a major house cleaning where 3-4 players go (including either dropping Ali or demoting him down the order). Simply put it would not make sense to only single Bell out because as mediocre as he has been others have been liabilities and he has not been a liability.

 

[social]

Unless Finn regains his pace, England really needs some variety in their pace bowling

As it stands, Broad/Finn/Woakes/Stokes & Jimmeh bowling short are almost one and the same

 

[Cabinet96]

'Cane you're not going to get a much better batsman at 8 than Woakes, who has been selected to bat six in test matches before. His biggest problem is that he's not particularly suited to what a number 8 has to do in an ODI. In the tests v India when Moeen wasn't getting any runs and people were moaning about Woakes' bowling I suggested swapping them in the batting order. Should role with it in the ODI's as well IMO.

On the possibility of Cook coming back, I'm not really going to bother suggesting it until he's shown he's at least somewhere near a competent batsman. If he has a strong tour to the Windies and good series v NZ then he can come back of course.

 

[Prince EWS]

ok but **** ben stokes.

i'd be open to Morgan batting in the top 3 tbh, sorta in the vein of some of your previous posts. if it doesn't work move him back down one year or two later.

I think I'd roll with this squad of 15 for the first 18 months or so after this WC:

Hales
Moeen
Roy

Taylor
Root
Morgan
Vince

Buttler
Stokes
Willey

Woakes
Jordan
Wood
Finn
Parry

So that's basically Roy in for Bell, Vince in for Ballance, Stokes in for Bopara, Wood in for Anderson, Willey in for Broad, Parry in for Tredwell.

If Anderson wants to play the next WC I'd basically plan for him to do so because it's at home and he'd be a big asset there but he doesn't need to play a lot of ODIs now in any rate. After 18 months they can re-evaluate, drop some guys that aren't working and promote other performing blokes from the fringes, possibly bring back Broad if he's actually fit or Cook if he's not batting with a needle by then. Another 18 months and it'll be a year out and then can make the final-ish surge for the WC -- bring back Bell if the batsmen they've tried aren't performing and Bell still is, have another look at Broad or Cook if they haven't already, etc.

If they want to try and win lots of ODI series in the mean time they should not pick that squad, but if that's the case there should be no resting Anderson or any other fast bowlers either. You either take these games seriously and try to win them all or you use them as a platform to build for the WC: meeting these ideas halfway doesn't work.

 

[theegyptian]

Great Post and the blackcaps improvement came about when the best payers stepped it up a notch. However I would only see the sense of dropping Bell if it is part of a major house cleaning where 3-4 players go (including either dropping Ali or demoting him down the order). Simply put it would not make sense to only single Bell out because as mediocre as he has been others have been liabilities and he has not been a liability.

Bell being the most senior player came about almost as accident. They never intended for the team to be build around Bell. As seen by him been out of the team as recently as December last year. It was just almost a quirk of fate that he started the world cup as England's most trusted bat. 18 months out you'd have still had Cook, Trott, KP and Morgan in front of him as the more reliable and better bats. So in that regard asking him to standout and become world class is asking a lot. But still that doesn't get away from the fact that he is an average odi bat.

Ali is in the team as an allrounder and his best batting positiion (or where he has batted almost entirely throughout his career) is as opener. The hope is he has a career like Jayasuriya or Hafeez. I could see him moving down the order. One of Ali or Stokes are probably going to have to play as the allrounder.

 

[Dan]

1. Vince -- Arguably the best top-order batting prospect England have; nice mix between cake/icing
2. Ansari (6) -- Some solid cake who can still score quickly, also bowls left arm spin
3. Taylor -- Best accumulator England have
4. Stokes (5) -- Bats ahead of Root to break up the icing; can block-bash his way through the middle overs and then bowl his seamers
5. Root * (7) -- England's best ODI batsman, basically playing the Morgan role only better than Morgan (bat through the middle then go nuts at the end).
6. Buttler -- England's second-best ODI batsman. Icing.
7. Billings + -- The purest of icing, but damn can this kid hit a ball.
8. Moeen (4) -- Primarily playing as England's best spinner, but also has bonus icing potential
9. Woakes (3) -- Lower-order cake; can be shoved up the order in the event of a collapse. Ever-improving with the ball and good in the field. A genuine all-round cricketer/
10. Willey (2) -- Left arm swing as some variation in the attack, and some more-than-competent icing.
11. Finn (1) -- Hopefully he's regained his mojo by this point. England's best ODI quick, theoretically speaking.

12. Roy -- Replacement top-order option if Ansari doesn't fire. Provides the icing while Vince becomes a pure cake.
13. Ballance/Gregory -- Ballance to come good and provide some high-quality bench cake, or Gregory as a shadow bowling all-rounder for Moeen
14. Anderson (1) -- Might not make 2019, but he's the best non-Finn option at #11 at this point.
15. Payne/Mills/Wood/AN Other -- Seamer, preferably left armed, who has pace and can do a Starc. Train one of these guys up!

Perhaps a bit too much icing, but it bats deep and might overcome being a little bit **** by transcending the sum of its parts somehow.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ansari is a bit left field. Definitely think I'd rather have Vince or Roy in there. Picking him to add sixth bowling cover I guess?

 

[Dan]

Ansari is a bit left field. Definitely think I'd rather have Vince or Roy in there. Picking him to add sixth bowling cover I guess?

Well he's alongside Vince...

I don't rate Roy as highly as most, and Ansari is a ****ing gun. I'd even consider having him captain the side ahead of Root. Intelligent top order bat who is a cake by nature (see the FC strike rate), but can also accelerate when required (see the List A strike rate). Throw in his handy, economical left-arm spin and you've got the perfect squad player -- I just think he's good enough to be in the first XI.

Will be quality by 2019.


So yeah, sixth bowler cover and providing some top-order cake considering that the lower half of the XI is all icing. Roy doesn't help that.

 

[Furball]

How do you figure Broad has never been a good ODI bowler? Madness

It's difficult to do so without coming across all Richard but I reckon Broad's figures often flatter him. Plenty of times he's bowled like a drain then jammed wickets at the death to give him figures that are good for maintaining a decent average.

I dunno, he's just not particularly economical, doesn't move the ball much and isn't express pace.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well he's alongside Vince...

Oh right. I guess I just naturally assumed that dropping Hales would be weird.

 

[theegyptian]

Ansari had a decent time or so in his first year or so in the lower middle order in odi cricket showing a bit of potential and adaptability but hasn't done much since then. Opens in the championship but is a Graeme Smith type left handed grinder type - but lacking the strengths of Smith. Gives the ball a real rip though and could in time be a very decent spinning option. Simply isn't good enough or fluent enough to be anywhere near the ODI team at the moment especially at the top of the order.

He'll be a mid to lower order finisher in odi cricket if he makes it and possibly a top 3 grinder in test cricket.


Ansari showing WIlliamson who is boss

 

[Pothas]

Yeah I like Ansari but there is no way he should be at the top order oder in an ODI right now. I would be going for something like this:

Vince
Hales/Roy
Taylor
Root
Buttler
Billings
Moeen
Woakes
Willey
Jordan
Some other bowler.

 

[GIMH]

It's difficult to do so without coming across all Richard

Which is pretty much an admission that you're wrong if ever there is one

 

[vic_orthdox]

Thought I wrote this post somewhere but couldn't find it in here.

I wouldn't go as full on with the changes as some of the sides provided here.

Going full "rebuild" puts too much pressure on the guys who have already been there a little while. With question marks over Ali at the moment at the top of the order, I'd keep Bell for the time being, and give Hales the next two series - make or break for him. And I don't think you can fit Stokes and Ali into the same top 6; I'd give Stokes his chance to land his spot as a batsman and helping out as sixth bowler.

Bell
Hales
Taylor
Root
Stokes
Buttler+
Ali
Woakes
Quick
Quick
Quick

 

[GIMH]

I'm a big believer in building to a World Cup, and that England need root and branch changes. However, I also believe that building for a WC doesn't mean you should retire from ODIs if you won't be at the next WC. You have to transition a side. Have the experience there to guide the young guys throiugh over the next 12-24 months. As long as the main framework for the side is place by 2017, that's okay. For mine, you should be able to predict who'll be in the WC squad bar maybe 2/3 players, two years out, especially for a home WC as at least half your games can be spent planning for those conditions.

In fact what's even the point in us playing away ODIs at all until 2019

 

[Furball]

I don't actually think the batting requires major surgery bar actually batting the guys who could potentially be really good in positions that would get the best out of them.

The bowling is suffering from the age old problem of 'think these guys are bad? The blokes we have coming through are worse.'