Call me racist or whatever ...

[jonbrooks]

No; you've shifted the goalposts. You were specifically referring to selection in this thread; not structural problems that I agree exist.



If you're going to make a claim that their selection was wrong/biased, which -- regardless of whether you go on to deny it by shifting the goalposts again after this post -- is exactly what you did in the opening post, you should have examples of their poor selection.

The national selections absolutely did pick players on ability, not race. There are race-related problems with their structure -- absolutely. But you've claimed they weren't picking based on merit. I actually believe this was true at times in the past but it is categorically false at the moment.

As my OP said "whatever" :-)

 

[Athlai]

The equivalent of a bent arm post if I've ever seen one.

 

[jonbrooks]

The equivalent of a bent arm post if I've ever seen one.

Please post this my Jon Brooks mega chucking thread.

 

[Pratters]

I have always wondered about the origins of PEWS. Some times I have though of him to be Kiwi. Is that racist??

 

[Athlai]

I have always wondered about the origins of PEWS. Some times I have though of him to be Kiwi. Is that racist??

Yes.

 

[Pratters]

 

[Dan]

Nah, jonbrooks is totally correct here. Let's look at the merit-squad:

1. Nick Compton *
2. Murray Goodwin
3. Gary Ballance
4. Brendon Taylor +
5. Andy Flower
6. Sean Williams
7. Colin de Grandhomme
8. Keegan Meth
9. Anthony Ireland
10. Ray Price
11. Kyle Jarvis

12. Mark Vermuelen
13. Graeme Cremer
14. Glen Querl
15. Peter Moor


Let's just ignore that half of them are retired, because let's face it, Goodwin and Flower are clearly better than the next-best white prospects, Waller and Lamb. Similarly, Cremer and Price are both better than the next-best white spinners, Waller and Lamb.

Then let's ignore that Compton, Ballance and CdG are all ineligible because they've represented other countries, that Keegan Meth has given up on ZC, that Querl is a filthy chucker and that Ireland and Jarvis are off in County Cricket because they actually get paid there. Oh and don't forget that Vermeulen tried to burn down a ZC building.


Seriously though, Zimbabwe has a lot of race-related problems, and I do suspect some of them get skimmed over from time to time because a lot of the political mistreatment in contemporary Zimbabwe goes against whites (which itself is an 'attempt' to overcome the past oppression of blacks, if my understanding of Mugabe politics is close to correct). There are racial issues deep within Zimbabwean cricket's structures, in terms of how talent is discovered and developed, I'm sure. But the selection of this World Cup 15 was based on a combination of merit and squad balance -- as it should be. We can debate that the structures mean white talent isn't developed, or that the complex political structures of modern Zimbabwe vis-a-vis colonialism mean that white players are more likely to **** off overseas and do other ****, but the Venn diagram of the squad picked and the 15 best eligible-and-available Zimbabwean players is practically a perfect circle (I maintain Vusi > Regis, but they needed a reserve 'keeper).

I also think Dav Whatmore wouldn't take that kind of ****; if he was told he had to quota-up when picking his squad, I suspect he'd be none-too-pleased and pick the best 15 anyway.

 

[Athlai]

9/10 should have snuck in AB de Villiers.

 

[Flem274*]

man i wish zimbabwe had jarvis back

 

[Flem274*]

and chakabva can piss off

 

[Dan]

Also, the fact that this guy is tearing up the Zimbabwean domestic competition is actually really concerning.

 

[Flem274*]

Also, the fact that this guy is tearing up the Zimbabwean domestic competition is actually really concerning.

??

 

[Dan]

He plays Second XI cricket for Glamorgan (who aren't quite Leicestershire bad, but not much better), and has gone over to Zimbabwe and completely dominated the domestic comp there.

 

[Athlai]

He plays Second XI cricket for Glamorgan (who aren't quite Leicestershire bad, but not much better), and has gone over to Zimbabwe and completely dominated the domestic comp there.

Yeah franchise cricket is definitely a good step forward but the quality of cricket is still fairly low. Most of the Zimbabwean squad absolutely dominates at that level.

 

[Jono]

What an awful thread title.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, indeed. Literally every Zimbabwe international player becomes an all-rounder at franchise level. The bowlers always seem to bat 6, the batsmen always seem to be the fifth bowler.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I did wonder about the quota thing while watching the Zim-Ire match last night, in which Zimbabwe's white players performed much better than the black ones. Made me wonder if there were any other good white players left at home.

Note that this is not evidence for anything. Just something I noticed.

 

[Dan]

I did wonder about the quota thing while watching the Zim-Ire match last night, in which Zimbabwe's white players performed much better than the black ones. Made me wonder if there were any other good white players left at home.

Note that this is not evidence for anything. Just something I noticed.

There are a handful, but generally it's either borderline calls for squad spots or guys who are horrendously out of form.

Greg Lamb has historically been ok-ish, but he's sucked since coming back from yet another retirement.
Malcolm Waller was a gun, but he's also massively out of form and he got banned from bowling because he's a chucker.
Mark Vermeulen is thereabouts, but he's not likely to challenge any of the first-choice XI really. Maybe a better option than Matsikenyeri, but they're completely different batsmen really.
There's a young 'keeper, Peter Moor, but he's unproven despite being highly-rated at age group level.
And I can't think of a single white fast bowler in Zimbabwe, let alone one that should be selected (Kyle Jarvis notwithstanding, for obvious reasons)

 

[ankitj]

Not applicable to this thread though.

 

[brockley]

Most the whites have left Zimbabwe.Very few whites in the first class comp,their are more whites playing the lesser leagues in Zimbabwe,including former Zimbabwe players.
I think this was their best side considering their shambolic Bangladesh tour.
Its just the fact Ireland are a better team on the field and on paper.