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*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I mean, just ftr, I don't think Liz was a huge factor in Savage getting over as a face. As a heel she clearly was because he was such a **** to her, and obviously the Mania 7 face turn was epic.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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GIMH said:
It was built around a female, but what he didn't acknowledge/realise was that she was a vehicle in the feud. He made out that wrestling is real and the only reason they had a match was because of Liz, not that the main event of Mania 5 was decided in late 87, with everything else booked to accommodate it.

Perhaps I was just in a bad mood that day. But to me he didn't come off too bright at that point.
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His point was that Liz's presence was essential to many of Macho Man's biggest feuds and was a big part of why Macho Man's success (even though he was good enough to get over on his own), which I do agree with. Thought the comparison of Macho man/Liz and HHH/Chyna was well made too.

It's just an offshoot of his argument that HHH always has tons of people around him when he succeeds. Whether it's late 90s DX, or McMahon-Helmsley regime, or Two man power trip, or Evolution, or 2000s DX, or now with the Authority. Never had success equal to his reputation as a true singles competitor without being part of some big act with other people.
 
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Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Yeah exactly, he acknowledged it was a round-about way to make his point and said to bear with him, and then GIMH stops the video before he makes his point. wac
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
OverratedSanity said:
His point was that Liz's presence was essential to many of Macho Man's biggest feuds and was a big part of why Macho Man's success (even though he was good enough to get over on his own), which I do agree with. Thought the comparison of Macho man/Liz and HHH/Chyna was well made too.
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Again I'm not disputing that Liz was a big part of his early WWF (**** you pandas) career but I felt like his whole basis was that they only booked Hogan V Savage because of her. If you want to do a podcast where you think you're a wrestling smart, don't be a mark to try and prove your point I would say.

Maybe I'm being harsh

It's just an offshoot of his argument that HHH always has tons of people around him when he succeeds. Whether it's late 90s DX, or McMahon-Helmsley regime, or Two man power trip, or Evolution, or 2000s DX, or now with the Authority. Never had success equal to his reputation as a true singles competitor without being part of some big act with other people.
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DX without a doubt key to his success. Wouldn't dispute Chyna either, she was massive in him getting super heal heat, no doubt.

The two man power trip lasted about two months so is barely worth discussing, other than it was supposed to be a setup for an HHH face turn apparently. Then he did his quad so we started the invasion early. Yay.

The rest of the stuff, so what? Flair's greatest success came with the horsemen. Brock has Heyman. Rusev has Lana. Early Michaels has Sherri. Vince had the corporation.

I could go on. Heels surround themselves with people. It's what they do, they either bully those around them or use them to sustain their run t the top. It's really not a case to make against HHH IMO.

All that being said, I always liked Cornette's stance on HHH - he works with the guy who draws the money. IMO that's true and he's damn good at it.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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I get that Heels are generally part of groups but some of the best heels of the lastd decade or so have done it on their own because they had the charisma to be complete dicks on their own without a whole army beside them. I love HHH and him in 99-2001 is probably one of the great heels ever, but it is a point worth thinking about that alone, whether heel or face, he just hasn't succeeded the way he should.
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
GIMH said:
All that being said, I always liked Cornette's stance on HHH - he works with the guy who draws the money. IMO that's true and he's damn good at it.
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Yeah he's gun at it, problem is Trips thinks he was bigger. And when he makes comments on air saying Edge, RVD and Jericho were never the main guy, when he himself wasn't, its going to piss people off.

The point Slomonster made was Chyna was bigger than Trips, and has a right to be a HoFer. Its just hilarious how he teed off on Trips for like 10 mins to make his point. That's all.

You're overreacting on this point.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Jono said:
Yeah he's gun at it, problem is Trips thinks he was bigger. And when he makes comments on air saying Edge, RVD and Jericho were never the main guy, when he himself wasn't, its going to piss people off.
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Agree with that. I'd put Edge on a level with HHH as the top heel at various points. Jericho stands alongside HHH IMO. RVD clearly not on HHH's level though and never close to being a top guy.

The point Slomonster made was Chyna was bigger than Trips, and has a right to be a HoFer. Its just hilarious how he teed off on Trips for like 10 mins to make his point. That's all.
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Chyna bigger than HHH? 97/98 sure. Don't think you could argue it as an overall point unless you were on crack.

Anyhow, HHH specifically said that based on her wrestling achievements she deserves to be in there but they can't because she got gang banged in a ring full of people dressed as wrestlers. Whether you agree with that reasoning, it's hard to argue with given the way they try to present themselves nowadays.

I mean I've seen sunny brought up in comparison but Chyna pretty much went hardcore so I can understand that reasoning.

Of course if you don't believe him and think it's more that Stephanie wouldn't want her in there because of her history with HHH, I can get on board with that.

You're overreacting on this point.
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Don't ****ing tell me **** **** I'm ****ing ****ing overreacting **** **** ****
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
GIMH said:
Agree with that. I'd put Edge on a level with HHH as the top heel at various points. Jericho stands alongside HHH IMO. RVD clearly not on HHH's level though and never close to being a top guy.



Chyna bigger than HHH? 97/98 sure. Don't think you could argue it as an overall point unless you were on crack.

Anyhow, HHH specifically said that based on her wrestling achievements she deserves to be in there but they can't because she got gang banged in a ring full of people dressed as wrestlers. Whether you agree with that reasoning, it's hard to argue with given the way they try to present themselves nowadays.

I mean I've seen sunny brought up in comparison but Chyna pretty much went hardcore so I can understand that reasoning.

Of course if you don't believe him and think it's more that Stephanie wouldn't want her in there because of her history with HHH, I can get on board with that.



Don't ****ing tell me **** **** I'm ****ing ****ing overreacting **** **** ****
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FFS if you listened to the video you knew I didn't mean Chyna was bigger than Trips overall. You suck.
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
GIMH said:
Agree with that. I'd put Edge on a level with HHH as the top heel at various points. Jericho stands alongside HHH IMO. RVD clearly not on HHH's level though and never close to being a top guy.
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That's the WWE's failing. The bloke was as over as Triple H has ever been in 2001.

Anyway the point is that Trips criticism of those 3 was a dick move. Cos he's a dick.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Jono said:
That's the WWE's failing. The bloke was as over as Triple H has ever been in 2001.

Anyway the point is that Trips criticism of those 3 was a dick move. Cos he's a dick.
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But look what happened when they did give him the ball. Was inevitable. Same reason Bulldog only got a tiny IC run, why NWA took the title off Kerry Von Erich after a couple of weeks, etc

Gotta say though. RVD was tearing up the 2002 Rumble, enter HHH, pedigree and in a bit. That sucked.
 
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