Furball
Evil Scotsman
a completely honest cricketer in Pakistan
a completely honest cricketer in Pakistan
Nah there are plenty of guns around. Amir can shove it. Junaid Khan is the bowling hero the new Pakistan deserve.He is a special case because he's a gun. If he wasn't so good, I'll freely admit I wouldn't be too fussed if he was hounded out for good. The game needs guns back and firing more than making an example of him, in my opinion, because we're talking about entertainment here and he's entertaining. He didn't kill anyone, no animals were harmed in the making of his corruption, I wanna see him back.
Junaid has regressed. He doesn't even swing the new ball much anymore.To those who keep putting forward his background and that we in the first world can't possibly understand etc etc (it's a few pages back), to me you're being extremely patronising to Pakistani cricketers (or any cricketer) from poor backgrounds by implying they are less likely to know or abide by right and wrong. I would feel brave enough to say most people in the game and in the real world who come from disadvantaged backgrounds have been spotless human beings.
I don't even think Amir should have gone to jail for fixing, but he should be banned for life, especially since he wriggled and squirmed so hard to try and lie that he was innocent. It's non-negotiable for me. If he had come forward voluntarily after taking the money or even come clean as soon as the police came calling I could see the argument for a lighter penalty, but his crime against the game and his conduct after being caught was terrible and now he's getting a much lighter punishment than the vast majority of fixers because he's young and he's talented (people are freely admitting this so I don't know why you're all so against me saying it).
Nah there are plenty of guns around. Amir can shove it. Junaid Khan is the bowling hero the new Pakistan deserve.
Junaid has regressed. He doesn't even swing the new ball much anymore.
Pakistan has no good fast bowler.
Not at all our argument. He knows right and wrong. Being poor doesn't effect his morale judgement.To those who keep putting forward his background and that we in the first world can't possibly understand etc etc (it's a few pages back), to me you're being extremely patronising to Pakistani cricketers (or any cricketer) from poor backgrounds by implying they are less likely to know or abide by right and wrong. I would feel brave enough to say most people in the game and in the real world who come from disadvantaged backgrounds have been spotless human beings..
That's a very odd argument. Its not going to kill the game so who cares? Come on.The integrity of the sport will survive. Forget spot fixing, cricket has survived match fixing in the past. Let's not overreact. Here's a wager I'll make: Even with Amir back in the sport, people will continue to watch cricket. Yes, even Pakistani matches. They may "wonder" every time he oversteps, but they'll get over it.
That's not a come back to people who think that time wasn't long enough though Fusion. Surely you see that?I'm going to sound repetitive, but Amir served his time. The governing body of the sport is satisfied with his punishment and has allowed him to come back. As ***** has stated in this thread, the ICC has also established a precedent with Amir that if any cricketer feels pressured or threatened to fix games, they can contact the ICC and receive assistance/protection. If they get caught fixing, they'll receive a long ban. And yes, 5 years is a long ban as in most cases as it will be hard to come back from that much time missed. Repeat offenders can get banned for life. That's not a bad way to handle this at all IMO.
what exactly do you want me to say to this? Just ridiculous moral judgement.Yeah! And loyalty to justice. Oh no. Actually not that.
Justice is a myth in the subcontinent. Seriously.Yeah! And loyalty to justice. Oh no. Actually not that.
I wouldn't go that far, I just don't believe in the absolutism of justice.Justice is a myth in the subcontinent. Seriously.
Hmmm, how very convenient.I wouldn't go that far, I just don't believe in the absolutism of justice.
I was responding to the argument by OS that the integrity of the game would somehow be destroyed if Amir is allowed to come back. His exact words were "Him getting back into the Pakistan team will make the game a joke...". I contend that's bullocks. I don't see why my reasoning is odd. Cricket allowed players who everyone knew were match fixers to continue to play the game. If the sport survived that episode, surely it can survive this? Amir is not circumventing the system and somehow sneaking his way back in. He was punished by the ICC and served the time they mandated. You can argue that the punishment was lenient (although I'd say you are being harsh), but to argue that the sport would become a "joke" if he plays is a bit of a joke argument to me. If anything, Amir's case was at least handled properly. He was caught, tried, and punished according to the rules of the game. The "integrity" of the game survived because a proper process took place.That's a very odd argument. Its not going to kill the game so who cares? Come on.
That's not a come back to people who think that time wasn't long enough though Fusion. Surely you see that?
Some of the arguments against Amir coming back have been stupid in this thread, but the idea that his time serves wasn't long enough for the wrong act that he did is a perfectly reasonable point of view.
As you said , Gibbs and Williams didn't go through with it. And I'm talking international cricket. Jadeja only played domestics.Gibbs and Williams were only given small bans, though in practice they never 100% fixed. I think Jadeja was only given an Amir-length ban too, though I don't remember his case.
That's a gross simplification. I, for example, believe his circumstances deserve to be taken into account, including his youth, the fact his captain and senior player was involved, and also the fact that he didn't match fix, but spot fixed. Regardless, I still feel he should be banned for longer. I lean towards life but I can see 10 years. The fact that it was only August/September 2010 when this happened, and he's already allowed back (i.e. less than 5 years) is rightfully seen as too soon.What I resent is this continued argument by some that the only reason people want him back is because of his talent. That's bull****. The way I see it, we have two fundamentally different groups on this topic. The first group thinks that Amir committed a heinous crime against the sport and deserves a life ban for it (and possibly worse in terms of a prison sentence). The second group believes that Amir committed a heinous crime against the sport, but his circumstances deserved to be taken into account, and he should be allowed to come back after the punishment he served. As a member of the second group, I can confidently state that it doesn't matter if it's Amir or some low-talent player in question, our approach would be the same. At a very personal level, I believe in redemption and second chances. I get that's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's irritating to keep reading that I only feel this way because of Amir's "talent".