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Mohammed Amir cleared to return with immediate effect
- Thread starter cnerd123
- Start date
G.I.Joe
International Coach
Yeah, Jadeja was handed 5. He did return to play domestic cricket at 37, IIRC. The general feeling at that point was that the BCCI wouldn't have picked him for international cricket even if he was good or young enough to make a comeback. Sort of a tacit understanding between the governing body and the fans.
Flem274*
123/5
To those who keep putting forward his background and that we in the first world can't possibly understand etc etc (it's a few pages back), to me you're being extremely patronising to Pakistani cricketers (or any cricketer) from poor backgrounds by implying they are less likely to know or abide by right and wrong. I would feel brave enough to say most people in the game and in the real world who come from disadvantaged backgrounds have been spotless human beings.
I don't even think Amir should have gone to jail for fixing, but he should be banned for life, especially since he wriggled and squirmed so hard to try and lie that he was innocent. It's non-negotiable for me. If he had come forward voluntarily after taking the money or even come clean as soon as the police came calling I could see the argument for a lighter penalty, but his crime against the game and his conduct after being caught was terrible and now he's getting a much lighter punishment than the vast majority of fixers because he's young and he's talented (people are freely admitting this so I don't know why you're all so against me saying it).
I don't even think Amir should have gone to jail for fixing, but he should be banned for life, especially since he wriggled and squirmed so hard to try and lie that he was innocent. It's non-negotiable for me. If he had come forward voluntarily after taking the money or even come clean as soon as the police came calling I could see the argument for a lighter penalty, but his crime against the game and his conduct after being caught was terrible and now he's getting a much lighter punishment than the vast majority of fixers because he's young and he's talented (people are freely admitting this so I don't know why you're all so against me saying it).
Nah there are plenty of guns around. Amir can shove it. Junaid Khan is the bowling hero the new Pakistan deserve.
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Junaid has regressed. He doesn't even swing the new ball much anymore.
Pakistan has no good fast bowler.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
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cnerd123
likes this
Not at all our argument. He knows right and wrong. Being poor doesn't effect his morale judgement.
Our argument is he comes from a country full of corruption, didn't have any sort of safety net for if his cricket career fell through (a career he needed due to his poor background and lack of opportunities) and was being threatened by the most powerful and influential cricketers in Pakistan to do what they say. Failure to comply means his career is over. Tattling on them could lead to even worse consequences, and might get his family involved. And the fix they asked him to do was relatively minor.
We don't claim that he didn't know right and wrong. We are trying to explain how the difference between right and wrong can get very muddled in a situation like Amir's.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
That's a very odd argument. Its not going to kill the game so who cares? Come on.
That's not a come back to people who think that time wasn't long enough though Fusion. Surely you see that?
Some of the arguments against Amir coming back have been stupid in this thread, but the idea that his time serves wasn't long enough for the wrong act that he did is a perfectly reasonable point of view.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
what exactly do you want me to say to this? Just ridiculous moral judgement.
Justice doesn't exist in some sphere segregated from the rest of life.
cnerd123
likes this
Justice is a myth in the subcontinent. Seriously.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I wouldn't go that far, I just don't believe in the absolutism of justice.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Hmmm, how very convenient.
Fusion
Global Moderator
I was responding to the argument by OS that the integrity of the game would somehow be destroyed if Amir is allowed to come back. His exact words were "Him getting back into the Pakistan team will make the game a joke...". I contend that's bullocks. I don't see why my reasoning is odd. Cricket allowed players who everyone knew were match fixers to continue to play the game. If the sport survived that episode, surely it can survive this? Amir is not circumventing the system and somehow sneaking his way back in. He was punished by the ICC and served the time they mandated. You can argue that the punishment was lenient (although I'd say you are being harsh), but to argue that the sport would become a "joke" if he plays is a bit of a joke argument to me. If anything, Amir's case was at least handled properly. He was caught, tried, and punished according to the rules of the game. The "integrity" of the game survived because a proper process took place.
What I resent is this continued argument by some that the only reason people want him back is because of his talent. That's bull****. The way I see it, we have two fundamentally different groups on this topic. The first group thinks that Amir committed a heinous crime against the sport and deserves a life ban for it (and possibly worse in terms of a prison sentence). The second group believes that Amir committed a heinous crime against the sport, but his circumstances deserved to be taken into account, and he should be allowed to come back after the punishment he served. As a member of the second group, I can confidently state that it doesn't matter if it's Amir or some low-talent player in question, our approach would be the same. At a very personal level, I believe in redemption and second chances. I get that's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's irritating to keep reading that I only feel this way because of Amir's "talent".
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OverratedSanity
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As you said , Gibbs and Williams didn't go through with it. And I'm talking international cricket. Jadeja only played domestics.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
That's a gross simplification. I, for example, believe his circumstances deserve to be taken into account, including his youth, the fact his captain and senior player was involved, and also the fact that he didn't match fix, but spot fixed. Regardless, I still feel he should be banned for longer. I lean towards life but I can see 10 years. The fact that it was only August/September 2010 when this happened, and he's already allowed back (i.e. less than 5 years) is rightfully seen as too soon.
The bloke played a huge part in ruining a test match at Lord's. The remaining 3-4 days of that test after it was revealed in the media was nothing more than an embarrassment on cricket. The fact that some people feel he shouldn't be back is a perfectly reasonable view.
I think even if you feel Amir has done the time and should be allowed back, you should be completely understanding of people on a cricket message board who live and breathe the sport not wanting to ever see him again. It is such a normal and understandable view. Especially in light of Cronje and Azhar in 2000.