***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2015

[hendrix]

I sort of agree with this, but it's important to remember that things have kinda changed since the UAE. At the time, Guptill was understandably seen as a dead cert for one opening spot, and McCullum was intended to take the other. Latham was never really in contention at that stage, and was always considered as one of the people vying for McCullum's vacated number 5 spot. As a result, it's not surprising that he was batting where he was.

The key to the squad and the reason Latham is there ahead of Watling is that the selectors do not want to move any player out of position in the even of an injury. For example, plenty of teams would just move Taylor to 3 rather than significantly weakening the top order if Williamson were injured, but Hesson wouldn't do that. Or in the case of a Ronchi injury, we'd put Watling at 5 and move the hitters down to 7. Hesson, however, is so intent on all of the players playing their roles that Vettori batted 5 in the buildup. Latham is seen as a better 7 than Watling (incorrectly, IMO).

As we have seen, Latham is reserve cover for spots 1-7, and has been ever since Ryder ruled himself out.

Neesham and Elliot (he was already in the frame back then) were the middle order players at that point in time. However, given that it's only a 15 man squad I suppose they needed to give Latham a go at 5, and they (correctly, IMO) rate him as the better batsman than Neesham.

 

[Greenlite]

Latham looked good in UAE ODIs but since then he tend to show his experience by playing the wrong shots against veteran bowlers. He just needs to learn and he will be fine, in a season or two.

We really don't have any more G Elliot in NZ to cover the batting? Jamie How? Brownlie? Someone who can get 30-40 and avoid a batting collapse?

 

[hendrix]

Latham looked good in UAE ODIs but since then he tend to show his experience by playing the wrong shots against veteran bowlers. He just needs to learn and he will be fine, in a season or two.

We really don't have any more G Elliot in NZ to cover the batting? Jamie How? Brownlie? Someone who can get 30-40 and avoid a batting collapse?

His name is BJ Watling.

The wonder is not that he isn't in the squad, it's that he wasn't even considered when the likes of Brownlie played in the UAE.

Honestly Brownlie playing so many games in preparation was so frustrating. I could even see the point in Devcich but Brownlie was a weird selection.

 

[Bahnz]

His name is BJ Watling.

The wonder is not that he isn't in the squad, it's that he wasn't even considered when the likes of Brownlie played in the UAE.

Honestly Brownlie playing so many games in preparation was so frustrating. I could even see the point in Devcich but Brownlie was a weird selection.

He also didn't do too badly all things considered. If I could replace Guptill or Latham with someone who averaged 30 at a SR of 79 as Brownlie has this season, then I probably would.

 

[Prince EWS]

Honestly Brownlie playing so many games in preparation was so frustrating. I could even see the point in Devcich but Brownlie was a weird selection.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

It robbed Brownlie of an opportunity to get some FC cricket as an opener under his belt too, which is important given Rutherford's place in the Test side. It really was a terrible selection.

I think the NZ selectors have by and large done a great job in both forms over the last year or so, but the UAE selections were terrible. Watling and (definitely) Boult should have played, Brownlie definitely shouldn't have.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, I think we can all agree the opening slot hasn't been handled ideally preparation-wise over the last 12-18 months.

Neesham used there v SA (and severely hampering his World Cup bid), Brendon batting at 5 v in the same series, Devcich when any decent judge knew he wasn't going to be at the World Cup, Brownlie when he would've had to smash the door down to be picked (when they were very likely to use Latham as a back-up squad member) etc. No mention of Gup, they've certainly invested faith in him but form has conspired against them and there's really no other options now.

There's been a lot of good work done but with the above, Boult not playing basically any ODI cricket when we now know he was a lock for the squad etc, things could've been done better.

 

[Flem274*]

His name is BJ Watling.

The wonder is not that he isn't in the squad, it's that he wasn't even considered when the likes of Brownlie played in the UAE.

Honestly Brownlie playing so many games in preparation was so frustrating. I could even see the point in Devcich but Brownlie was a weird selection.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

It robbed Brownlie of an opportunity to get some FC cricket as an opener under his belt too, which is important given Rutherford's place in the Test side. It really was a terrible selection.

I think the NZ selectors have by and large done a great job in both forms over the last year or so, but the UAE selections were terrible. Watling and (definitely) Boult should have played, Brownlie definitely shouldn't have.

I pretty much agree with what has been said except for the Brownlie part a little bit. He didn't deserve the run and it hampered his test ambitions but if you're going to pick a player you know is a good player but hasn't delivered in the 50 over format yet, then this is how you do it (i.e. this is how they should have handled Boult).

I think Brownlie is decent enough and could make an ODI batsman yet but others probably deserved a crack more.

 

[Flem274*]

Oi, careful Flemo. I do love my boys like nothing else but I'm not above pointing out their flaws. For example, Dutchy is the same batsman and golfer he was 4 years ago, Glenny Phillips is a gun but should never have played in the final and was found out on the front front, Manu needs to bowl and better if he wants his NZ spot back and Millsy sometimes has a hair out of place. Got nothing on Lord Grob at this stage.

As for your boy Milne, the fact that he bowls 145-150 is masking a few quiet performances, is it not? I rate the guy but we're not getting a tremendous amount out of him

I was only having you on champ.

Milne is the worlds fastest economy bowler. He's been pretty steady without either getting smashed or taking a bag. He's had a few dropped catches iirc but the "unlucky" tag sometimes hides flaws. Maybe like Southee and Hilfenhaus during their "unlucky" phases he's bowling a touch too short? He certainly beats the bat often enough and does get good players out when he actually gets wickets.

 

[Immenso]

Brownlie earned his UAE run by his good A tour & tournament in the UK in August.

He wouldn't have replaced Rutherford in the test team in December anyway as they want him to have a Plunket shield season opening.

Thankfully, he now will have 7 PS games to make a case, I'd assumed he'd be in the WC squad and miss the whole season. Elliott deserves even more praise now, if he inadvertently solves our Rutherford problem by leapfrogging Brownlie.

 

[hendrix]

I pretty much agree with what has been said except for the Brownlie part a little bit. He didn't deserve the run and it hampered his test ambitions but if you're going to pick a player you know is a good player but hasn't delivered in the 50 over format yet, then this is how you do it (i.e. this is how they should have handled Boult).

I think Brownlie is decent enough and could make an ODI batsman yet but others probably deserved a crack more.

Even if he'd hit 3 centuries in a row, where is the place for him in the squad?

As much as it pains me to say it, Latham and Guptill have been spud-like since the UAE, and Brownlie is still nowhere near being in the frame to replace for him. That's due to Latham's utility, and Guptill's record.

Brownlie doesn't bowl and there are better middle order options (Neesham, Munro, Watling, Elliott, Latham). His only spot was at the top of the order and it's ridiculous to think he would've ousted Guptill or McCullum in that time frame.

You can't carry a substitute opening batsman in a squad of 15.

 

[Flem274*]

Brownlie could cover the middle order if he deserved his place in the squad.

If Brownlie scored a pile of runs Elliott wouldn't have got a look in the first XI. As I remember it Baz only moved up because neither Brownlie or Devcich came through in the UAE. It was probably one of the worst places for Brownlie to trial tbf. But anyway back in the UAE tour we had no idea Elliott was going to be as good as he is right now and the selectors hate Watling in one day teams.

If they had selected Elliott as well as a successful Brownlie then Latham would have missed out.

 

[Bahnz]

I was only having you on champ.

Milne is the worlds fastest economy bowler. He's been pretty steady without either getting smashed or taking a bag. He's had a few dropped catches iirc but the "unlucky" tag sometimes hides flaws. Maybe like Southee and Hilfenhaus during their "unlucky" phases he's bowling a touch too short? He certainly beats the bat often enough and does get good players out when he actually gets wickets.

Yeah, Milne is going to be our modern-day equivalent of Gavin Larsen. The only difference between the two is that Larsen was our slowest ever first change seamer while Milne is our fastest.

 

[SteveNZ]

I was only having you on champ.

Milne is the worlds fastest economy bowler. He's been pretty steady without either getting smashed or taking a bag. He's had a few dropped catches iirc but the "unlucky" tag sometimes hides flaws. Maybe like Southee and Hilfenhaus during their "unlucky" phases he's bowling a touch too short? He certainly beats the bat often enough and does get good players out when he actually gets wickets.

Haha, you know I'm alright with it pal. And I'm not changing my Howick homer status for anyone

Yeah you're probably right on that, but whether that was what a guy who bowls 150 clicks was picked for is debatable. He's probably outside the best XI and will be well used to blast out minnows at the very least.

 

[Xuhaib]

the team did look very rusty in the first game. I would like Yasir Shaha and Sohaib to get a run in the next game. My world cup starting XI will be

Shehzad
Sarfraz
Younis(unfortunate he will play)
Misbah
Haris
Sohaib/Umer
Afridi
Wahab
Yasir
Juanid
Irfan

 

[Moss]

Brownlie could cover the middle order if he deserved his place in the squad.

If Brownlie scored a pile of runs Elliott wouldn't have got a look in the first XI. As I remember it Baz only moved up because neither Brownlie or Devcich came through in the UAE. It was probably one of the worst places for Brownlie to trial tbf. But anyway back in the UAE tour we had no idea Elliott was going to be as good as he is right now and the selectors hate Watling in one day teams.

If they had selected Elliott as well as a successful Brownlie then Latham would have missed out.

Disagree that Brownlie didn't come good in the UAE. The 30's and 40's he scored there may not seem like much on paper, but they ensured NZ got a good start every time, giving KW and Taylor a foundation to work with. Also, he stood up and countered the threat of Mohd. Irfan. When up against Aus/Saf, he's the guy I would've backed most to front up against Steyn or Johnson so that KW and the rest don't get exposed early on.

Can understand why Latham was preferred though. Aside from his wicketkeeping skills, he can bat anywhere in the order. Brownlie in the middle order is a bit pointless given his weakness against spin (though maybe less of an issue in NZ?). Still, we seem to have the measure of the subcontinental sides and it's how we come up against the quality pace attacks that could well decide our fate in the tournament. So Brownlie could have been included purely with this in mind.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah that's fair. Brownlie certainly has had all of his success against South Africa and Australia, often in challenging conditions.

At the time though we assumed Guptill would carry on his merry way and with Baz moving up Brownlie appeared surplus to requirements. Latham got in based on his versatility.

 

[Hurricane]

Yeah that's fair. Brownlie certainly has had all of his success against South Africa and Australia, often in challenging conditions.

At the time though we assumed Guptill would carry on his merry way and with Baz moving up Brownlie appeared surplus to requirements. Latham got in based on his versatility.

I, as well as others, am watching Hendrix's posts to see if he throws in the towel on Latham.

 

[Flem274*]

Of course he won't, and he shouldn't. Latham is a gun, he's just in the ODI side too soon.

 

[Hurricane]

Of course he won't, and he shouldn't. Latham is a gun, he's just in the ODI side too soon.

I meant about him starting the first game ahead of Guptill.

 

[Moss]

I, as well as others, am watching Hendrix's posts to see if he throws in the towel on Latham.

In theory Latham should be a good fit for no.5. Can play spin well, can rotate the strike, can hit out if needed etc, but probably hasn't developed the limited over know-how yet. Good thing Elliott has solved that problem for now. Thinking back to 2011, Kane was a borderline selection and was also in danger of being a passenger, but when Franklin and How continued to fail he was brought in and played very well in the two knockout games. Could be a similar sort of case with Latham, so won't throw in the towel on him.

Having said that I feel he could be a greater asset as a foil to BMac at the top of the order since he has a better defensive game than Guppy.