***Official**** Sri Lanka in New Zealand 2014/2015

[Flem274*]

southee has swung the ball on both of his tours there and that was when he was dire

australia have guys who could play him very well but you'd think if conditions suited (which they do often enough over there) then he will find movement and the decks will suit his bounce and his patience. australia really rewards players who can build pressure and get some good bounce.

 

[Athlai]

second coming of southee update 89 @ 23.08 from 20 matches (since and including the India recall for the 31 august 2012 test)

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Pure statz-wise it goes Steyn>Johnson>Harris>Southee with Roach possibly being in the mix but not playing enough.

 

[hendrix]

australia have guys who could play him very well

Not really. Apart from Warner I'd back him against anyone in that lineup. Maybe Smith would do ok in some form but the rest of them are complete rubbish against the moving ball.

 

[NZTailender]

Well that's kinda the point: Southee and Boult can and should be expected to tear through this lineup - they've been doing it all over the world for 2 years now.

McCullum, Taylor, Williamson and to a lesser extent Latham and Neesham have also been scoring big runs this year and could certainly expect to score more runs against this attack. Where will the runs come from from SL's perspective? Mathews, Sanga and recently Karuneratne.

IIRC Latham has outscored Taylor this year.

Edit: in fact, so has Neesham and Watling. But I imagine you're including Taylors last of 2013?

 

[Hurricane]

Why not? I've yet to see anywhere that the ball hasn't swung for them.

Hendrix is right in past Aussie tours Southee has swung it.

However Australian pitches heavily favour the home team. There is no seam movement whatsoever but massive massive bounce which a) favours their pace men b) their batsmen love as they grew up on it c) brings lyon into his own - he is a beast in his own conditions (but disagree with Blocky that he would carve up if he came here)

I also think we would lose over there, but think we could win in neutral conditions.

 

[Flem274*]

Not really. Apart from Warner I'd back him against anyone in that lineup. Maybe Smith would do ok in some form but the rest of them are complete rubbish against the moving ball.

warner, clarke and smith would be the men to do it consistently. rogers can play and is fast becoming the most underrated batsman around. shaun marsh on a rare "bat to potential" day as well.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Why not? I've yet to see anywhere that the ball hasn't swung for them.

UAE. University Oval. Seddon Park when conditions aren't right. The only bowler who finds swing in any conditions is Steyn.

 

[Flem274*]

we would lose over there but win over here. our pitches are a bit slower and the length you need to bowl is a bit fuller which ironically enough would sucker their less experienced players into ill advised drives.

trent boult over there would need to bring his length back and bang it in more. as it stands he would come onto the bat nicely and he's an along the deck bowler and that spells trouble.

 

[Maximas]

The most amazing part about today was probably Eranga's batting, I remember Andrew Fernando wrote something a while back about how he had some talent with the bat and he could be developed into a bowling all-rounder, didn't watch the innings so I can't really comment but this tail is in dire need of some spine so that's encouraging at least, pretty happy with day 3 and 4 but gutted about the first 2 days here

 

[ohnoitsyou]

southee has swung the ball on both of his tours there and that was when he was dire

australia have guys who could play him very well but you'd think if conditions suited (which they do often enough over there) then he will find movement and the decks will suit his bounce and his patience. australia really rewards players who can build pressure and get some good bounce.

I only remember the last tour, i don't recall anyone getting much movement after the first 10 overs, and Hobart being a greentop which changes things obviously (and then again Hobart is more NZ conditions than Aussie to begin with). Sure the ball will swing early on, and there will be patches where it does so for longer, but i would also expect long dry spells more regularly than they would find back home.

 

[Blocky]

Hendrix is right in past Aussie tours Southee has swung it.

However Australian pitches heavily favour the home team. There is no seam movement whatsoever but massive massive bounce which a) favours their pace men b) their batsmen love as they grew up on it c) brings lyon into his own - he is a beast in his own conditions (but disagree with Blocky that he would carve up if he came here)

I also think we would lose over there, but think we could win in neutral conditions.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Lyon would rip us apart here, but I do think he'd get wickets against us much easier than our spinners would against them and I think that, alongside how good Ryan Harris is and how crap we generally are against 150kph bowlers means they have the advantage.. I think Ryan Harris would be absolutely lethal in our conditions, Johnson a little less lethal, slower wickets would hurt him a bit but I still think his fast full deliveries would be problematic for our guys. The other thing is I don't see our tail hanging around against Johnson which would rob us of runs at the end that we've normally been lucky enough to score.

In neutral conditions - it's an interesting argument. I actually think we've surpassed the Australian team against good spin bowlers which keeps us in the fight longer but I think ultimately our spin bowlers aren't good enough to expose that weakness against Aussie which would come down to a slug out.

 

[Maximas]

I get the feeling they think their seamers are gun and only have poor records because of where they play their cricket, so I think they'll go with the same balance they have here.

Our seamers have been huge in all three overseas wins this year, the only time our spinners have won us a test was at home with Herath going nuts, thing is they aren't good bowlers in their own right, only when they are all bowling decently do they actually threaten as an attack, backing Lakmal and Eranga to come good, Eranga is known as a bit of a slow starter on tours, the return of Herath will help too, builds pressure by being able to attack and contain at the same time, if Prasad gets into a rhythm he'll be dangerous, but I wouldn't be against picking Kaushal ahead of him if Matthews is prepared to bowl himself enough.

And flem - do you rate Dilruwan Perera or something? He's ****ing horrible, believe me

 

[Hurricane]

I only remember the last tour, i don't recall anyone getting much movement after the first 10 overs, and Hobart being a greentop which changes things obviously (and then again Hobart is more NZ conditions than Aussie to begin with). Sure the ball will swing early on, and there will be patches where it does so for longer, but i would also expect long dry spells more regularly than they would find back home.

Yeah I am nodding and shaking my head at the same time to all of your posts on this topic. The only way you will convince me that the pitch affects the swing is in the cases of abrasive pitches that rapidly take the shine off the ball. Which is kind of what you are saying - but at the same time I am not certain if that is your point.

Your other arguments about conditions is also a good one - sometimes due to weather it just doesn't swing. I think the biggest factor of whether it swings or not is the ball itself, which seems to be a secret that only our team has learned as we frequently change the ball until we find one that swings ok.

 

[hendrix]

Southee has proven himself to be effective in all conditions. We've seen that time and again for over 2 years.

He's also proven that if there's any bounce in he wicket he's absolutely lethal.

I'm sorry but I would back him 9 times out of 10 to remove guys like Rogers, Watson, Haddon, Marsh etc. Clarke is also vulnerable to the moving ball. I'm not entirely sure about Smith but gee it's not as if these guys haven't got good batsmen out before.

 

[Blocky]

Yeah I am nodding and shaking my head at the same time to all of your posts on this topic. The only way you will convince me that the pitch affects the swing is in the cases of abrasive pitches that rapidly take the shine off the ball. Which is kind of what you are saying - but at the same time I am not certain if that is your point.

Your other arguments about conditions is also a good one - sometimes due to weather it just doesn't swing. I think the biggest factor of whether it swings or not is the ball itself, which seems to be a secret that only our team has learned as we frequently change the ball until we find one that swings ok.

NZ should move to the Duke ball for test cricket, keep the Kookaburra for first class cricket - we'd be so much better against touring sides.

 

[Blocky]

Southee has proven himself to be effective in all conditions. We've seen that time and again for over 2 years.

He's also proven that if there's any bounce in he wicket he's absolutely lethal.

I'm sorry but I would back him 9 times out of 10 to remove guys like Rogers, Watson, Haddon, Marsh etc. Clarke is also vulnerable to the moving ball. I'm not entirely sure about Smith but gee it's not as if these guys haven't got good batsmen out before.

You can back him to do that, the problem is even if Southee had say two tests, 12 wickets at an average of 20 each - Australia still have Johnson and Harris that could do the same to us and worse. I also think you're not giving Smith, Warner and Clarke enough credit - they're all performing at a level similar to BMac has this year.

 

[Hurricane]

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Lyon would rip us apart here, but I do think he'd get wickets against us much easier than our spinners would against them. I think Ryan Harris would be absolutely lethal in our conditions, Johnson a little less lethal, slower wickets would hurt him a bit but I still think his fast full deliveries would be problematic for our guys. The other thing is I don't see our tail hanging around against Johnson which would rob us of runs at the end that we've normally been lucky enough to score.

Johnson would be effective here. I clapped (very briefly) for a five-fer he got at the basin. But yes less lethal.
Lyon would go the same way as Nathan H and chip in with the odd important wicket here and there but be nothing to write home overall. I think the young spinner we saw today is better than him.

 

[Flem274*]

Our seamers have been huge in all three overseas wins this year, the only time our spinners have won us a test was at home with Herath going nuts, thing is they aren't good bowlers in their own right, only when they are all bowling decently do they actually threaten as an attack, backing Lakmal and Eranga to come good, Eranga is known as a bit of a slow starter on tours, the return of Herath will help too, builds pressure by being able to attack and contain at the same time, if Prasad gets into a rhythm he'll be dangerous, but I wouldn't be against picking Kaushal ahead of him if Matthews is prepared to bowl himself enough.

And flem - do you rate Dilruwan Perera or something? He's ****ing horrible, believe me

I've seen a little of him and he looked acceptable, but I'm mainly going on the logic that one only has to be better than Dhammika Prasad to contribute more to the side.

Eranga is a quality bowler but Prasad and Lakmal aren't going to come good because they are no good. Prasad has no control over what he's doing - he can't control his lines, his lengths or even his pace. Lakmal just combines being bad with being unsuited to the conditions. Shorter men bowling standard back of a length at modest pace isn't going to work in NZ even if there is a bit in the deck. He'll beat the bat sometimes and look promising but it's a lie. In New Zealand you have to be full. I'd say the only time you will ever need to bowl a fuller length in test cricket is if you're reversing the ball in Asia.

Eranga's natural style of looking to get it full and swing it is what's needed, and Mathews found the right length pretty quickly as well. The best attack includes Herath and Kaushal though right now.

 

[Blocky]

Johnson would be effective here. I clapped (very briefly) for a five-fer he got at the basin. But yes less lethal.
Lyon would go the same way as Nathan H and chip in with the odd important wicket here and there but be nothing to write home overall. I think the young spinner we saw today is better than him.

Kaushal looked really good, I agree... great dip and drift in his action and the ability to get the ball turning both ways. I'd love to have a bowler like him in NZ Cricket but it just won't happen.

 

[Maximas]

I've seen a little of him and he looked acceptable, but I'm mainly going on the logic that one only has to be better than Dhammika Prasad to contribute more to the side.

Eranga is a quality bowler but Prasad and Lakmal aren't going to come good because they are no good. Prasad has no control over what he's doing - he can't control his lines, his lengths or even his pace. Lakmal just combines being bad with being unsuited to the conditions. Shorter men bowling standard back of a length at modest pace isn't going to work in NZ even if there is a bit in the deck. He'll beat the bat sometimes and look promising but it's a lie. In New Zealand you have to be full. I'd say the only time you will ever need to bowl a fuller length in test cricket is if you're reversing the ball in Asia.

Eranga's natural style of looking to get it full and swing it is what's needed, and Mathews found the right length pretty quickly as well. The best attack includes Herath and Kaushal though right now.

Well FYI Perera can't bowl to right handers, gets little in the way of flight, turn or bounce and mainly relies on drift, he'd be useless here, has some utility in the SC though.

I didn't watch a single ball bowled by SL this match because I've been quite busy but I've watched Lakmal pitch the ball up and get swing on many occasions recently, he's also shown considerable control throughout the year but from what I understand he didn't do that here, I'd back him to get back to what he normally does soon, as for Prasad his lack of control is a real shame as he can be quite incisive and provides the attack with much needed penetration on his day, but he doesn't appear to have many good days