Is New Zealand a better side than Australia at the moment?

[hendrix]

He was just underprepared in the same way that Taylor and Williamson were.

He was bloody good in tough conditions in the Windies. He's quite a bit better than Haddin.

 

[Niall]

Is New Zealand just an absolute non draw over in Australia?

It's been nigh on six years since we last played a ODI series over there (which is just ridiculous AFAIC). But to see Pakistan pick up four tests next summer while New Zealand get thrown a token two is just insane.

To lazy to check, but I do feel sorry for NZ as they seem to be the warm up for the Ashes quite a bit. It always means you will get poorly attended test matches as punters are saving the money for The Ashes and sometimes domestic action. To be fair on NZ, their ODI side does fine when it comes to moving tickets.

You can't justify Pakistan getting four tests over NZ at all. NZ are improving while Pakistan will probably rock up without Misbah and Younis. A four test series which will be insanely one sided does nothing for anyone especially as it is quite likely we will get crap crowds. Have you seen the price of English test cricket, why would you bother when the outcome is not in doubt? Pakistan to be fair have never exactly been considered a massive test draw for anyone at all either no matter the quality of the team.

I'l have to a look at Taylors stats properly later, I am very biased towards Smith as I did big him up for a long time. Ego is a horrible thing!

 

[hendrix]

I like Smith too but a century in SA is not enough to say he's better than Taylor. Otherwise someone could claim that Mark Craig's 10 wickets vs Pakistan makes him better than Lyon, which is patently untrue.

I actually think Smith might be better than Williamson tbh.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah the Smith vs. Williamson debate is a bit fairer. I'd say that Taylor is O2BB

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah they've never really drawn big crowds for tests over here AFAICR. Mind you, neither has Pakistan. The 4:2 split does seem weird. Given NZ has been a pretty good ODI side for a while now, they should play here more often, though the Chappell-Hadlee got canned a few yars back now. Worth bringing back I wonder?

Does anyone actually have a link to a source to confirm this? The only reports that I can find online cite the revised FTP schedule, which has Australia playing 3 tests against New Zealand and 3 tests against West Indies (in that order) in 2015/16.

 

[Maximas]

And they're not even that similar from the snippets of UAE cricket I've seen.

Similar in that pretty much all assistance for the pace bowlers tends to be removed when a non-Asian team tours

Sri Lanka winning in the UAE is not as big as an achievement given a) they have the best spinner in the world b) they have the best batsman in the world in these conditions and c) the conditions are closer to their home conditions.

That was a funny series, they prepared decks that probably gave more assistance to the fast bowlers (Herath averaged mid 30s and Ajmal early 40s) and we won a good toss in Dubai

I like Smith too but a century in SA is not enough to say he's better than Taylor. Otherwise someone could claim that Mark Craig's 10 wickets vs Pakistan makes him better than Lyon, which is patently untrue.

I actually think Smith might be better than Williamson tbh.

It's tight, Smith's ashes hundreds and India 92 ought not to be forgotten, helps he bowls legally too

 

[hendrix]

That was a funny series, they prepared decks that probably gave more assistance to the fast bowlers (Herath averaged mid 30s and Ajmal early 40s) and we won a good toss in Dubai

yeah, but that's also probably to do with how well those two sides play spin bowling. Definitely was some more assistance for the pacers than the Aus and NZ tours though.

It's tight, Smith's ashes hundreds and India 92 ought not to be forgotten, helps he bowls legally too

I would probably take Smith over Williamson because Smith has scored in both pace and spin-friendly conditions, but Williamson does bat 3 and Smith doesn't.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

yeah, but that's also probably to do with how well those two sides play spin bowling. Definitely was some more assistance for the pacers than the Aus and NZ tours though.

Didn't stop Craig or Tahir did it?

 

[hendrix]

well that was Maximas' point - that the SL series had pitches more favourable to fast bowling than spin bowling - although still not favourable to bowlers in the way we'd describe bowling-friendly conditions.

Craig still averaged 41 at a run rate over 4.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

well that was Maximas' point - that the SL series had pitches more favourable to fast bowling than spin bowling - although still not favourable to bowlers in the way we'd describe bowling-friendly conditions.

Craig still averaged 41 at a run rate over 4.

The point is that Pak really aren't that great at playing spin. In the first innings there wasn't much there for Craig yet he still took 7 wickets. Tahir was similar. Both had poor stats for the series, but they each bowled their team to a victory in one game where they really shoudn't have been able to.

 

[Bahnz]

The point is that Pak really aren't that great at playing spin. In the first innings there wasn't much there for Craig yet he still took 7 wickets. Tahir was similar. Both had poor stats for the series, but they each bowled their team to a victory in one game where they really shoudn't have been able to.

I don't want to deride Craig's accomplishment, but those were extreme circumstances, and I'm not sure you can put that down to Pakistan just being bad at playing spin.

 

[Athlai]

I don't want to deride Craig's accomplishment, but those were extreme circumstances, and I'm not sure you can put that down to Pakistan just being bad at playing spin.

Craig was certainly asking questions with his drift, but it was Pakistan that were answering with "fine then, here have my wicket".

 

[ohnoitsyou]

I don't want to deride Craig's accomplishment, but those were extreme circumstances, and I'm not sure you can put that down to Pakistan just being bad at playing spin.

Maybe. But its not out of line with Pakistan's recent batting performances.

 

[cnerd123]

Playing spin is more mental than technical. Pak batsmen definitely have the technique and skill for it, but as history has showb they usually don't have the mental game sorted out.

 

[Flem274*]

Taylor is better than any Oceania batsman not called Clarke by a considerable distance.

It would be a low scoring series, so maybe a bit of a lottery. Individual batsmen rather than the units as a whole would stand up and do the bulk of the scoring. Harris, Johnson, Southee and Boult would have the number of the batsmen more often than not. I'd back the home team to win.

Harris and Johnson at home are the complete pair and Southee is well suited to Australian conditions too. It's often forgotten he often bowls into the wicket from a great height with lots of variations (including an offcutter I haven't seen a batsman pick yet) in his second spell. He's not just a swing bowler. Boult loves left handers so it would be a good test of the Australian opening pair. Warner is a gem so I'd back him to make a score or two.

New Zealand play spin better as a unit but spinners taking wickets won't be a major point in either host country. Spin is where Australia have the edge actually unless Mark Craig can either consistently take lots of wickets or stop getting hammered on his off days. Finger spinners die in Oceania. Vettori, Lyon and Hauritz are the only ones to make a go of it, and touring Asian spinners who use quick turn as their main weapon just come onto the bat nicely. Lyon is more likely to hold it together than Craig, so New Zealand would really need to target him.

Johnson would not have much fun in Dunedin or Hamilton, but both grounds are places Twatto can get some reverse going. Johnson at the Basin is in business, and Harris will deliver everywhere.

 

[Flem274*]

yeah, but that's also probably to do with how well those two sides play spin bowling. Definitely was some more assistance for the pacers than the Aus and NZ tours though.



I would probably take Smith over Williamson because Smith has scored in both pace and spin-friendly conditions, but Williamson does bat 3 and Smith doesn't.

Williamson has a ton against SA and plays in a pace friendly country at number three tbf.

Smith is pretty damn good though. The perfect number five - can play spin, has massive balls.

 

[Flem274*]

a distracted Pakistan team

I don't know if you watched the game or not but New Zealand are on record as not wanting to even be there.

They should play like they cbf more often.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

If combined Australia/ NZ


Openers

Warner
Latham
Kane
Clarke
Smith
Watson
Haddin
Mitch
Harris
Southee
Lyon.

.

Lyon and Haddin are lucky to make this side, but Shane Watson?!
Shane Watson? Ahead of Ross Taylor? I'd pick McCullum, Neesham, Anderson and a sober Jesse ahead of Watson as well.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I'd go:

Warner
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
Clarke
McCullum
Watling
Johnson
Harris
Boult
Southee

4-pronged pace attack ftw

 

[Maximas]

Warner
Latham
KW
Ross
Clarkeh
Smitteh
BJ
Mitch
Southeh
Rhino
Nath