*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

[GIMH]

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's incredible that they really were not originally planning for Bryan to be in the Wrestlemania main event. Anything other than Bryan would've been slaughtered by the crowd

Yeah, that would've been awful. Thank god Batista got booed at the Rumble. That coupled with Bryan getting that incredible ovation in that Slammy award show made the WWE realise how stupid they were being. Thank god Bran actually won it... we would've been denied one of the best Mania finishes ever.

 

[sledger]

But Japan has had a strong history of women's wrestling producing the likes of Manami Toyota, not to mention NXT's own efforts with the rivalries of Paige vs Summer Rae, Charlotte vs Natalya etc. It can be done, or at least women's wrestling doesn't have to be oriented around reality shows not even on wrestling

I don't think anyone is claiming that it does tbh.

 

[andmark]

I don't think anyone is claiming that it does tbh.

But that's what it is in WWE

 

[sledger]

But that's what it is in WWE

So what? They do things the way they do because it's what's most profitable for them, not because they have to.

 

[andmark]

So what? They do things the way they do because it's what's most profitable for them, not because they have to.

Well it's clearly wrong and utterly ***ist. And then when does it stop? Do we go to bad old days of the bra and panties matches (can't believe I've just said that sentence haha)? Surely the women's division of the top wrestling promotion in the world should actually be based around wrestling. If we're to work solely off profit for these things, who needs women's cricket? (So many questions!) The crowds are terribly sparse and I really do find hard to think that it makes much of a profit. The obvious counter argument is that the ICC isn't purely a business and more of a governing body, but this doesn't work because the WWE is in a similar situation as the WWE is the major representatives of the sport of wrestling. If they aren't even allowing adequate showing of women's wrestling then it helps to wreck an already **** reputation wrestling has amongst non-wrestling fans.

 

[sledger]

I don't really see what point you are trying to make here lad. You say that the way the WWE does things is wrong, but why is this exactly? The Divas division is hardly treated like a joke - the fact that a number of Divas appear on reality TV shows alongside the wrestling broadcasts is neither here nor there. Divas matches get regular air-time in pretty much every televised show, so I'm not sure what you're alluding to when you say it doesn't adequately get shown on WWE programming.

And anyway by what metric are you assessing right and wrong? As you basically said in your post, the WWE is a private company and owes its primary responsibilities to its shareholders - to that end, it will do whatever is most profitable. As I think we all agree, women's wrestling on the whole is not as profitable as men's - this is indisputable. It's for similar reasons we don't coverage of women's sport on Match of the Day (i.e. there is not enough demand for it).

 

[andmark]

I don't really see what point you are trying to make here lad. You say that the way the WWE does things is wrong, but why is this exactly? The Divas division is hardly treated like a joke - the fact that a number of Divas appear on reality TV shows alongside the wrestling broadcasts is neither here nor there. Divas matches get regular air-time in pretty much every televised show, so I'm not sure what you're alluding to when you say it doesn't adequately get shown on WWE programming.

And anyway by what metric are you assessing right and wrong? As you basically said in your post, the WWE is a private company and owes its primary responsibilities to its shareholders - to that end, it will do whatever is most profitable. As I think we all agree, women's wrestling on the whole is not as profitable as men's - this is indisputable. It's for similar reasons we don't coverage of women's sport on Match of the Day (i.e. there is not enough demand for it).

But there are more women in the reality show than who actually wrestle. But even the style of wrestling (which yes, they do get 1-2 matches a week) usually involves daft things like hair pulling and spanking. The only time a women's feels serious is when Natalya, Naomi and -to a lesser extent- AJ Lee are on. Concerning women's wrestling profitability, it's hard to judge it (obviously though it surely wouldn't be as profitable as men's) given that they've never really presented it in the way I'm thinking it should be and so it's tough to say which would be more profitable.

Maybe I'm just being idealistic but the way WWE make it doesn't feel right.

 

[sledger]

I guess, rightly or wrongly, the E books the matches this way because they figure that is what their target audience want. Given the company is for the most part extremely profitable (despite the WWE Network struggling big time), it seems they have got their target audience well-figured-out. People seem to want to watch women's wrestling in that vein - if they want to watch a more serious product then they're free to do so. As mentioned earlier, Shimmer is but one alternative promotion.

Anyway, if it doesn't feel right to you then fair dos. But what would you like to see changed exactly? Or rather, in your ideal world, what would things look like?

 

[andmark]

To be brief, pretty much the way NXT do it. They're women's division is actually something worth watching with decent matches usually each week and the title being given a decent amount of time and flexibility to be an epic in the way Charlotte vs Natalya, Bayley vs Charlotte, Paige vs Summer Rae. Can't remember the last time I saw a match in the ranks of the quality of those above on the main roster (although I believe Stephanie vs Nikki Bella (I think it was) which I clearly didn't see)

 

[sledger]

?Vince McMahon Reacts To CM Punk's Recent Shoot Interview - Details Inside Here | eWrestlingNews.com

Vince McMahon addressed CM Punk’s comments from last week while on the Stone Cold Podcast on WWE Network Monday night. He apologized for firing CM Punk on his wedding day, saying that it was a "coincidence" that Punk got his severance papers that day. McMahon said that Punk lacks communication skills and is a “loner” and that he hopes that he and Punk will be on the same page again sometime in the future and work together again. Vince said he did not listen to the whole CM Punk podcast but heard about some of what was said. McMahon said he only wants what is best for business and would be open to working with Punk again.

Haha, hmmm...

 

[GIMH]

Thing is, he's probably telling the truth

I mean don't get me wrong, Vince holds a grudge. Unless you can make him absolutely ****loads

Hogan, forgiven. Jeff Jarrett? Not in this lifetime. Punk may be no Hogan but he's certainly no Jarrett. Vince would take him back in a heartbeat

Whether his son in law would, of course...

 

[sledger]

I have no trouble believing the rest of the passage tbh, but the bit in bold does strike me as being implausible. Can't make up my mind about whether he deserves the benefit of the doubt. But yeah, I expect the real stumbling block RE: a future return would be HHH and Stephanie, as it seems a lot of the problems that have come to the fore are the result of mutual resentment between the parties.

Comparatively speaking, Punk hasn't really said a great deal to suggest he has a problem with Vince. Not nearly as much as he has one with HHH anyway.

 

[GIMH]

Oh yeah I just meant about working with him again. The severance was clearly deliberate

 

[andmark]

Don't like him doing a shoot interview of which some of his employees would've been fired or made totally irrelevant for a year for doing.

Edit: After reading a summary of the interview, can't see myself watching the main roster stuff anymore unless Neville/Zayn debut. His, going on about how Cesaro doesn't have the "it factor" when he's never been given a more natural face role (even when he was getting cheered by 3/4 of the arenas), not to mention his being the best in-ring worker in the company at least whilst Bryan's out, is incredibly disappointing. He complemented Reigns and Wyatt who both don't have poor move sets and matches, and the latter even made his last ppv match very overrated (it got huge hype), cutting a promo half way through a match. Bray Wyatt is not Undertaker, nor is he "good for a big guy" (such an overused phrase)- the same people who say that about him barely know Big E exists- just because he has a decent gimmick. He's good on the microphone but his promos make no sense whatsoever. Incredibly over rated.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I give Vince a lot of credit for that interview, actually. Would've been easy for him to stay mum on some of the topics stone cold asked him about... Punk especially. And he actually apologized, which is unexpected to say the least.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Don't like him doing a shoot interview of which some of his employees would've been fired or made totally irrelevant for a year for doing.

Edit: After reading a summary of the interview, can't see myself watching the main roster stuff anymore unless Neville/Zayn debut. His, going on about how Cesaro doesn't have the "it factor" when he's never been given a more natural face role (even when he was getting cheered by 3/4 of the arenas), not to mention his being the best in-ring worker in the company at least whilst Bryan's out, is incredibly disappointing. He complemented Reigns and Wyatt who both don't have poor move sets and matches, and the latter even made his last ppv match very overrated (it got huge hype), cutting a promo half way through a match. Bray Wyatt is not Undertaker, nor is he "good for a big guy" (such an overused phrase)- the same people who say that about him barely know Big E exists- just because he has a decent gimmick. He's good on the microphone but his promos make no sense whatsoever. Incredibly over rated.

Yeah the stuff about Cesaro made me really mad. He got an amazing reaction at WM 30 and they pissed it down the drain after that. Of course he wasn't going to get the same reaction if they turned him into a boring heel and took away his best move which the crowd absolutely loved, the Giant Swing. After that, they stuck him with Heyman and did nothing, and have hardly ever given him the opportunity to speak on the mic at all.

Disagree partly about Wyatt though. Enjoy his promos... Even though they're essentially gibberish, I find them fascinating.

 

[sledger]

Can't see yourself watching the main roster anymore? It's on the whole the strongest and freshest it's been in absolutely years, but yeah ok.

 

[andmark]

Can't see yourself watching the main roster anymore? It's on the whole the strongest and freshest it's been in absolutely years, but yeah ok.

With Ryback, Reigns and Wyatt all looking likely for pushes, along with having a part-time champion, I don't see much point. I only really read the results and watched Raw occasionally for about the past year anyway.

 

[sledger]

What about Rusev, Ziggler, Rollins and Ambrose? They have all been given great pushes this year. It's not only towards the top of the card we're seeing this either. Opportunities are being given to loads of performers at the moment - look at all the guys in the tag team division at the moment.