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**Official** Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2014

hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Nah I definitely think Tastle was harshly treated, but he hasn't been discarded in that he's still playing A tour matches. Certainly I think Flynn was perhaps harshly treated in the same way that Jeets was - he was a decent performer in a period when our batting was dreadful. He never flourished in the way that Williamson would when all was crumbling around him, but in hindsight he looks a more reliable option than plenty of other batsmen.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
Athlai said:
Flynn - 24 matches
Sinclair - 33 matches
Franklin (as batsman) - 10 matches
Elliott - 5 matches
Bruce Martin - 5 matches
Todd Astle - 1 match

Only Astle may be hard done by there but in all honesty are any of us really of the belief that Tastle was harshly treated by the selectors? He was an experiment and somewhat last minute selection and in 2012 his spinning credentials weren't quite as well versed as they are today.

I fully expect Tastle to get a few matches if we do continue the spin merry go round.

The rest were all given a fair go and all came up short.
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The problem isn't that Flynn had 24 matches, or that Sinclair had 33 matches, or that Franklin had 10 matches - it's that Flynn had 24 matches across a seven year period, it's that Sinclair had 33 matches across a 12 year period, it's that Franklin (as a batsman) had 10 matches across .... you get the picture.

I fully expect the experimentation with Sodhi to continue until "the next leg spinner" comes along. I fully expect the experimentation with Rutherford will also continue. These guys were given a lot more rope and much more consistency than the guys I mentioned.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
i.e Fulton - 10 tests in 2013, more than Sinclair ever had in a single year. More than Franklin had as a batsman, more than Martin got as a bowler, more than Flynn got as an opener, After his first two years, Sinclair never played more than five tests in a year.

There are obviously "We like this guy, we'll try make it work" patterns in NZ Cricket. Styris himself pointed out he thought it bull**** that Bruce Martin wasn't A: Played earlier and B: Kept in the side.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
Blocky said:
i.e Fulton - 10 tests in 2013, more than Sinclair ever had in a single year. More than Franklin had as a batsman, more than Martin got as a bowler, more than Flynn got as an opener, After his first two years, Sinclair never played more than five tests in a year.

There are obviously "We like this guy, we'll try make it work" patterns in NZ Cricket. Styris himself pointed out he thought it bull**** that Bruce Martin wasn't A: Played earlier and B: Kept in the side.
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And this leeway was given because it's a position that has no competition. Sinclair throughout his career competed against Fleming, McMillan, Astle, Taylor, Ryder and McCullum for a batting spot. Franklin and Flynn with Williamson, Taylor, Ryder.

They were not good enough to keep out the incumbents or to keep out the guys on the sideline asking questions.

The fact is, Fulton averaging high 20s was good enough to keep out the next guy because of the lack of competition we have in openers domestically particularly when his opening partner was performing to that same very poor standard.

With Latham now making a more permanent shout for the opening spot, we may actually see the opener merry go round start speeding up again to find him a partner that is good enough to stick around.

Regarding BMartin, Vettori and Patel kept him out when he was a younger man. And when he did finally get his chance he didn't impress over 5 Tests. While Sodhi has done no better, his batting, age and not being a finger spinner has kept him in the side longer than a series or two.

If Sodhi continues to average 50+ he won't make it through 2015, but as of right now the only player likely to come into the side and bring better results is Jeetan Patel. A player approaching the tail end of his career who would rather close out his days playing County Cricket than getting back on the merry go round.
 
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straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Sinclair is ancient history anyway, considering most of the times he was ignored came during the Bracewell era, which was characterised by bizarre and nonsensical selection decisions. Things have been better since then.
 
R

RxGM

U19 Vice-Captain
I think it is irrelevant to compare the selection decisions pre and post Mike Hesson taking over as Hesson’s default position is do your background work on the guys than don’t make changes to the side, same as Steve Hanson, as they both went on the same coaching course.
If you look at the guys that have actually been dropped while Hesson has been coach. Everyone has been given a descent run in the side, and have generally only lost there spots due to extended poor form and/or Tactical changes.
Historically selection panels/coaches of ex players ie Hadlee, Nash, Bracewell, Wright have been more reactive with the selections hence the cutting and changing.
Fun fact – Rutherford & Fulton have opened together 21 times, only two other partnerships have opened together more, and they both included John Wright
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
*Guptill & McCullum, Pocock & Young also opened 21 times

But this perked my interest, since 2000 these are our opening partnerships that have at least 10 innings together.

Horne-Richardson
Richardson-Vincent
How-Redmond
Guptill-McIntosh
Guptill-McCullum
Fulton-Rutherford
 
R

RxGM

U19 Vice-Captain
Athlai said:
*Guptill & McCullum, Pocock & Young also opened 21 times

But this perked my interest, since 2000 these are our opening partnerships that have at least 10 innings together.

Horne-Richardson
Richardson-Vincent
How-Redmond
Guptill-McIntosh
Guptill-McCullum
Fulton-Rutherford
Click to expand...
Yea I was aware of that I was trying to use the more/I] as technicallity to make the point. Guppy & McCullum also had two runs as an opening partnership. of 6 games and 5 games, really not that long. It is the same with Richardson Partnerships the most consecutive tests that he opened with any of his many partners was 5 tests
 
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Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Lets just bowl bouncers - Khan looks like he is half asleep while dotting out the full length ones

This is my first time watching him bat by the way - likes to jump around a lot. But can't fault him so far. Looks like he is really concentrating too - I wish he would get ****y.
 
Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
khan is disrespecting us by batting out of his crease. Watling should stand up. If you can stand up to 125ks you should be able to stand up to 135ks.:ph34r:
 
Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Strange field and strange bowling in that over. We have a man at leg slip and he only bowled one ball at his legs.

Should move that man to silly point.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
As for the discussion on players being selected due to being likeable/fitting in with the core group - granted, Hesson is a new era but ultimately he's definitely shown he's a guy who has favorites... and the whole "We have no one else who could do better than Sodhi" thing is wrong in my view, because we have a tonne of bowlers who are out performing him in the same competition (first class)
 
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