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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Red Hill said:
Both Sunny and Boycs have better 4th innings records....
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Cbf. They might average more, but Smith has been involved in so many brilliant 4th innings chases, it's impossible to overlook him. And really, I believe 4th innings averages are way more misleading than averages in the 1st innings/2nd innings, because you have many cases where the match is pretty much dead in the 4th innings to the point where runs don't really mean anything. Gavaskar was part of some phenomenal chasing efforts, albeit, often valiant unsuccessful ones like his double at the Oval, and his 96 in his last match.

**** Boycott's average in the 4th innings. If he had as many truly great meaningful 4th innings performances as Smith, I'll be ready to concede.

3rd Test: England v South Africa at Birmingham, Jul 30-Aug 2, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: New Zealand v South Africa at Wellington, Mar 26-30, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: South Africa v New Zealand at Johannesburg, May 5-7, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
1st Test: Australia v South Africa at Perth, Dec 17-21, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
1st Test: South Africa v Australia at Cape Town, Nov 9-11, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Not to mention coming out with a broken hand to try and save a test against Mitchell Johnson.

You can keep Boycott. I'll take Smith, thanks. He's a 4th innings genius.
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
watson said:
Boycott unlucky to miss-out, but if both Gavaskar and Boycott opened then the run chase is too likely to get bogged down.
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This is in general and not about fourth innings chases but for a batsman who who a rep of being watchful and defensive, Gavaskar probably has the highest number of aggressive centuries (70/80+ SR) against ATG fast bowling by any batsman ever, with the possible exception of Viv.

I wonder if this was because he was technically so good that he'd be on the assault if there was any bad bowling regardless of who was bowling and the situation or simply because he was in the mood to attack and in the zone a few times in his career.
 
watson

watson

Banned
Back in 1984 at Lords the West Indies scored only 246 in their first innings as Botham took an 8fer. In the 4th innings they were under pressure to score 344 to win after England had the momentum thanks to an Allan Lamb century and a quickfire 81 by Beefy. Then Greenidge strode to the wicket and blasted 214* off just 302 balls to blow the England attack away. The West Indies won by 9 wickets on the 5th day.

With a 4th innings average in the 50s I reckon that Greenidge is almost a must when chasing 300 on the last day.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
dogwalker said:
And some bloke picks Boycott ahead of Smith based on stats? Incredible scenes.
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It's not based just on stats, although his 4th innings stats are outstanding.

As I said, you want your openers there for a long time chasing 300. Imo Boycs is more likely to be there longer than most. Which is ideal.

You can have Smith if you want, but it's hardly like picking Boycott is the most absurd thing ever, is it? Incredible scenes is a bit ott.
 
watson

watson

Banned
The other thing about Boycott is that his temperament might not be best suited for a run chase - great for staying in and not getting out, but not necessarily great for rotating the strike and keeping the pressure off the other batsman as the chase progresses. Openers like Gavaskar, Smith, Hayden, and of course Greenidge are all more likely to go up a gear when necessary and therefore pace the innings better;

 
weldone

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
The home pitch XI:

India
Navjot Sidhu
Virender Sehwag (5)
Dilip Vengsarkar
Sachin Tendulkar
Mohammad Azharuddin
VVS Laxman
Mahendra Dhoni +
Kapil Dev * (1)
Anil Kumble (3)
Javagal Srinath (2)
Bishan Bedi (4)
 
andmark

andmark

International Captain
Would you guys say Dale Steyn is ATG worthy? I'd say he's certainly one of the best bowlers I've ever seen (including watching the likes of Marshall and Hadlee on Youtube at least).
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
Top seven whose highest score in tests is less than Rohit's 264

Gavaskar
Hobbs
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis
S. Waugh
Border
 
andmark

andmark

International Captain
My ATXI:

1) Herbert Sutcliffe
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Don Bradman (capt)
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Viv Richards
6) Adam Gilchrist
7) Richard Hadlee
8) Shane Warne
9) Dale Steyn
10) Sydney Barnes
11) Muttiah Muralitharan
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
andmark said:
My ATXI:

1) Herbert Sutcliffe
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Don Bradman (capt)
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Viv Richards
6) Adam Gilchrist
7) Richard Hadlee
8) Shane Warne
9) Dale Steyn
10) Sydney Barnes
11) Muttiah Muralitharan
Click to expand...
L.Hutton
B.Richards
C.Walcott
G.Chappell
B.Lara
G.Sobers
A.Knott
I.Khan
D.Lillee
B.O'Reilly
G.McGrath
 
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