***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2014/15

[ohnoitsyou]

That's the reality of Ryder - he's newsworthy so he'll get constant attention on anything related to him being in the NZ side. NZ'ers in general also don't deal well with talented enfant terribles like Jesse Ryder is, because of the tall poppy syndrome and the misguided principle that "culture comes first, winning comes second" that is firmly ensconsed in the nation.

I think the vast majority of New Zealanders want Ryder in the side.

 

[Mike5181]

From what I've seen/heard there's been very little criticism of Ryder from the public this time. Plenty of negative comments thrown in the direction of the media though.

 

[Athlai]

That's the reality of Ryder - he's newsworthy so he'll get constant attention on anything related to him being in the NZ side. NZ'ers in general also don't deal well with talented enfant terribles like Jesse Ryder is, because of the tall poppy syndrome and the misguided principle that "culture comes first, winning comes second" that is firmly ensconsed in the nation.

As for quoting the first few responses, no real need - you already know there is an anti-Ryder contingent here, it's why your brought it up in your "Let's just make a statement to invalidate all future statements" approach.

They aren't the contingent you're thinking of.

 

[Howsie]

Sigh, Ryder at it again. Probably got himself good and proper smashed after New Zealand's four nations win. Wouldn't surprise me if he was in a couple of punch ups either. Don't want him near the New Zealand team again, he's done.

I hate him.

 

[Mike5181]

From what I've seen/heard there's been very little criticism of Ryder from the public this time. Plenty of negative comments thrown in the direction of the media though.

Sigh, Ryder at it again. Probably got himself good and proper smashed after New Zealand's four nations win. Wouldn't surprise me if he was in a couple of punch ups either. Don't want him near the New Zealand team again, he's done.

I hate him.

Haha, or not

 

[Athlai]

Haha, or not

He was being passive aggressive #typicalNZcontingent

 

[SteveNZ]

Yes. Especially Ross. I'll still say he is a lazy cricketer. I'll still say he should've put his team first but I'd realise that we don't have enough players of Ross' callibre to be able to drop him or not take him for selection.

Why? Because I believe in winning and to win, NZ simply can't afford to have its best talent sitting at home twiddling its thumbs.

The subtext seems to relate to Ryder having personal issues and not feeling ready to play cricket, hence withdrawing himself from the NZ A tour. Stuff, et all, including other posters here will make it seem like he went and got in a punch up or was hungover and missed the flight but my understanding is that wasn't the case and he made an active decision (including informing his team) that he could not play the match and subsequently doesn't feel prepared to tour. The full knowledge of what occured hasn't happened and NZ Cricket confirmed it was not their decision to exclude him from the tour.

Well in all fairness mate, that amounts to you not affording the same approach to Ross as to Jesse. I don't hold it against those who cite a Boy Who Cried Wolf scenario, having heard it so many times that they presume he sunk a weight of piss and either woke up unable to travel, or created a massive personal issue and wanted to stay home. They'd probably quite rightly think he was okay to play in the golf day and take time to sink a few cold ones, why was he not okay to fulfil his obligations as an employee the next day? I'm not saying anything has happened, I'm just telling you what people might think.

I think the tall poppy line is the most overused, mindless cliche incidentally. No offence meant but Kane is a guy who's achieved a fair bit at international level (he may have scored more international tons, if not a similar number) and I don't see too many wanting to chop him down. It just seems a convenient line for athletes who want to act up and justify the media/public backlash.

And we all generally want Jesse in the side.

 

[Blocky]

Well in all fairness mate, that amounts to you not affording the same approach to Ross as to Jesse. I don't hold it against those who cite a Boy Who Cried Wolf scenario, having heard it so many times that they presume he sunk a weight of piss and either woke up unable to travel, or created a massive personal issue and wanted to stay home. They'd probably quite rightly think he was okay to play in the golf day and take time to sink a few cold ones, why was he not okay to fulfil his obligations as an employee the next day? I'm not saying anything has happened, I'm just telling you what people might think.

I think the tall poppy line is the most overused, mindless cliche incidentally. No offence meant but Kane is a guy who's achieved a fair bit at international level (he may have scored more international tons, if not a similar number) and I don't see too many wanting to chop him down. It just seems a convenient line for athletes who want to act up and justify the media/public backlash.

And we all generally want Jesse in the side.

Actually - you'll see me say many times over that Jesse needs to get his head straight, get his ideas right and make playing for NZ a priority - but that doesn't mean i still wouldn't select Jesse in his current mood and mindset if he made himself available - we don't churn Jesse's out very often, in fact I think we've seen maybe three or four Jesse's in the entire history of NZ Cricket.

 

[SteveNZ]

Actually - you'll see me say many times over that Jesse needs to get his head straight, get his ideas right and make playing for NZ a priority - but that doesn't mean i still wouldn't select Jesse in his current mood and mindset if he made himself available - we don't churn Jesse's out very often, in fact I think we've seen maybe three or four Jesse's in the entire history of NZ Cricket.

Not doubting that, I'm just stating that if it's not fair and reasonable to presume Jesse isn't going because of another piss episode, it's also not fair and reasonable to apply a similar pre-empt to anyone else - ie Ross as my example was.

I note you said in regards to Ross possibly as late as last week that his preparation for the UAE tour was poor, and that was unacceptable regardless of family commitments etc and a father like Mike Hussey would just get on and work hard. Does this apply to Jesse too, if it's not a family bereavement?

 

[Blocky]

Not doubting that, I'm just stating that if it's not fair and reasonable to presume Jesse isn't going because of another piss episode, it's also not fair and reasonable to apply a similar pre-empt to anyone else - ie Ross as my example was.

I note you said in regards to Ross possibly as late as last week that his preparation for the UAE tour was poor, and that was unacceptable regardless of family commitments etc and a father like Mike Hussey would just get on and work hard. Does this apply to Jesse too, if it's not a family bereavement?

Ross is a lazy trainer, it's one of his biggest issues, he needs to almost fail in a series or feel he has a point to prove, then he goes away and works like a demon and we get the ross we saw earlier in the year, conquering in Tests and ODI Cricket. I can pay him out about that without saying "We should drop him" - because where are we getting another guy who can average over 40?

The same goes with Ryder - even Australia who had much better stocks of players persisted with Andrew Symonds through a tonne of **** because talent matters, even when Symonds wasn't one of the most talented in the country, they persisted with him until he literally stopped showing up to matches ( repeatedly )

As for family matters, I think in the case of Jesse, he's probably pissed that he now made national news again and can't be bothered dealing with it, so I think the reporting coverage and such exacerbated the issue.

 

[Dan]

As for family matters, I think in the case of Jesse, he's probably pissed that he now made national news again and can't be bothered dealing with it, so I think the reporting coverage and such exacerbated the issue.

From the information I'm hearing, you're spot on with this.

 

[SteveNZ]

Sorry, so Jesse is pissed he made national news for missing a match, and subsequently a NZ A tour, less than 3 months out from a World Cup he says he's committed to?

Our media aren't quite in the realm of the red tops in the UK, digging through garbage bins, hiding in bushes and planting stories to trip people up. I'm no fan of the media at all but the NZ guys aren't hunter gatherers - they'll just devour what lands in their laps.

He's really not a victim as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Dan]

Sorry, so Jesse is pissed he made national news for missing a match, and subsequently a NZ A tour, less than 3 months out from a World Cup he says he's committed to?

I think it's more that he's pulled out of the Christchurch game for personal reasons, and in the absence of any real detail the media's jumped immediately to assuming he got drunk at a golf day and missed the flight. I mean, here's a line from a Stuff.co.nz op-ed about it:

Not many people know Ryder well but those who do saw his Friday drinking and Saturday no-show at Dunedin airport coming a mile off.
[...]
The pattern is now clear. When things get intense, Ryder heads to the bar and goes missing.

Facts, or lack thereof, be damned. Obviously it must be alcohol-related if it's Jesse. Then that reporting goes and makes the personal dramas even worse.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah that's dreadful from Geenty.

It does pretty much rule him out of the WC though. He simply won't have a chance to press his case.

 

[Blocky]

Geenty is almost trolling Jesse for a response with those types of comments, and it's the type of article you know Jesse will end up reading and then due to the chip he has on his shoulder, the "**** NZ, I don't need this ****" mentality will start to arise again, especially considering how he enjoyed playing in Essex and has options in BBL and IPL.

In this case, I think Jesse did the right thing, pulled himself out and copped ****, so thought "Well, **** this. I can't win, I'm not going to put up with my life being scrutinised to this level by a bunch of ****wits in the media, I'll just go make my life happen irregardless of the NZ team"

 

[SteveNZ]

I hadn't read the article, that is disgraceful. From a guy I'd previously believed was one of the decent ones, and is/was well respected by the Wellington boys.

 

[Blocky]

I hadn't read the article, that is disgraceful. From a guy I'd previously believed was one of the decent ones, and is/was well respected by the Wellington boys.

The whole basis of "Anyone who knows Jesse will tell you" really pissed me off personally, it just reaks of clickbait style journalism. The career to date has been so poorly managed by Jesse, NZ Cricket and the Media that it's starting to become no pathway back, any movement Jesse takes will be summarily judged wtihout all the evidence.

 

[Athlai]

I know I'm a massive Jeets fan boy so my opinion is probably a bit unsurprising. But even if Wellington is going 'horses for courses', surely Patel should be playing ahead of Woodcock on current form? Both with bat and ball.

 

[Flem274*]

I guess they're backing class to beat form with the bat. Wooodcock is a better batsman than Jeets, and while Jeets is stiff not to get a game for his bowling, Woodcock's darts are very good in limited overs.

I'm not watching the game so if Woodcock is batting any lower than 8 then you may as well play Jeets, and Wellington probably have more dropworthy bowlers than Jeets in the team.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah Woodcock is batting 8