**Official** Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2014

[OverratedSanity]

Nopes

Yeah, it's weird. Why didn't they? Too dark?

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Good odds on it lasting the whole five days.

 

[marc71178]

Have i disputed that we've been rubbish lately?

When have you ever not disputed it?!

 

[WindieWeathers]

When have you ever not disputed it?!

And when have you ever NOT replied to one of my posts?

Tbh the debate is done...this is a thread about Pakistan and NZ so lets get back on track please.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I'd say Sri Lanka solving the problem of replacing Mahela and Kumar is about as likely as a wormhole spontaneously appearing in orbit around Saturn.

They need help from the 5th Dimension Sanga and Mahela.

 

[cnerd123]

And when have you ever NOT replied to one of my posts?

Tbh the debate is done...this is a thread about Pakistan and NZ so lets get back on track please.

How nice of you to insist we get back on track after you derailed the thread. It's why I love you man.

 

[WindieWeathers]

It's why I love you man.

Thanks for the support

 

[Howe_zat]

cricinfo

"Pakistan is next dominanat force of world cup hatters gona hate"

I didn't know about their refusal to buy hats

 

[BeeGee]

I've been impressed with the performance of Rahat Ali. He's bowled well on an unhelpful pitch and found a way to take wickets.

 

[Jarquis]

I'm on the bus with 4% battery so no idea if somebody has already, eventually, made this point but for all those who are saying it is 'win toss, win game'. In each match Pakistan have comprehensively out batted their opposition in their second innings to the opposition's first (ie third of the match vs second).

Obviously it's a lot easy when you've already absolutely plundered your opponent in half of the match but it's a pretty poor reflection on both Aus and NZ if once they've fallen someway behind they're not scrapping every inch to get back into it.

It'd probably make something of a difference if NZ bat first from a psychological PoV and marginally better conditions but Pakistan are just such a better side for the conditions. They'd still coast it imo.

 

[Howe_zat]

Think declaration batting is very, very different from responding-to-a-huge-total batting so I'm not sure we can make much out of Pakistan's repeated good 3rd innings. Still agree they would be winning these matches regardless of order, but they wouldn't have everything their own way.

 

[BeeGee]

...for all those who are saying it is 'win toss, win game'.

Did anyone actually say this? All I read was winning the toss is a big advantage. Which it is.

 

[Maximas]

Well, they did lose to SL 2-0 mere months ago. And that as with Junaid and Ajmal.

Neither NZ or Aus had quality, in-form 'sub-continent' players, no good spinners, and the good players of spin haven't shown it yet, SL had Herath and Sanga, huge difference

 

[r3alist]

Simply love how Misbah and Younis have turned Pakistan around. a few years ago Pakistan were looking at Zimbabwe and Bangladesh being their competition, now they atleast have the respect and fear of other nations at home, so from being ridiculed to here is a big deal.

this series is far from won, but their achievements to date have been excellent.


This too when Pakistan's talent pool has been more depleted than ever.

Ofcourse this team and it's form has big limitations, and could go backwards even more once the big 2 retire, but for now it's all good and to me just worth mentioning.

 

[Maximas]

You're the first person I've heard saying this. SL's batting prospects just aren't coming through. It's actually a really really dire situation. They need atleast 2 youngsters to step up their game to the next level like Angelo did, in the next 1-2 years. Otherwise, I can't see them being a good side.

Apart from the openers and Matthews I've seen some significant promise but not enough substance from the rest to make me confident our batting will remain close to the level it is with Sanga around. Spin bowling prospects are still quiet good, we'll miss Herath of course, but a test quality spinner will replace him I'm sure, pacers are developing well and we've been able to field a test quality unit over the last year, which is more than can be said for most SL sides over the years, I don't think it's dire, but the run of form we've had in 2014 won't be sustained beyond some significant retirements from what I've seen. We'll always be a good team at home, but Thirimanne and Chandimal (or someone else) will have to step up and average 40+ at test level if we are to be a force anywhere else

 

[Maximas]

Top stuff from Pakistan too, while the toss has severely exacerbated NZ's problems they've completely failed to penetrate with the ball and found themselves under the pump with the bat facing bowlers who have ****loads of runs to play with, pretty tough situation

 

[BeeGee]

Here's my position on the whole pitch/toss thing. Pakistan would have won this game whether they won the toss or not. NZ played poorly and Pakistan were sublime. But that doesn't change the fact that there was a big advantage in winning the toss. When it's a forgone conclusion what the winner of the toss will choose to do, then the advantage of the toss is far too great. And I'm not just talking about this type of pitch, it's goes for raging green tops as well, or any pitch where the decision at the toss is a forgone conclusion.

 

[smash84]

Yeah, that's a fair point

 

[Blocky]

This is in response to Blocky's comments with regards to Sodhi.

You seem to have sort some of agenda when it comes to Ish. For christs sake, the guys 22 years old and a spinner, in an age where containment and limited overs seem to be the requirements. Whats even more refreshing is that he's a leggie and tbh, Sodhi's ceiling is far greater than Mark Craig's when it's all said and done, hence the investment and extended run Sodhi will get. He can only get better, that will come with training and playing at a high level consistently. Now there is an argument definitely that he isn't the best in the country right now, but lets be honest, there not much to choose from currently and genuine spinners are few and far between, with domestic cricket littered with bits and pieces cricketers.

Also, Jono Boult is not better than Sodhi lol, like do you not see this? Jono Boult isn't close to being teh best off spinner in the country, yet Ish is the best leggie we got, or was that comment you made purely for the ND A situation.

Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder when it comes to posting? I don't get it. It's like you know the workings of NZ cricket but assume the rest of us are idiots without the inside knowledge that you, and only you possess.

The only thing I have against Ish is the fact that his bowling average is pretty much fifty at domestic, while he leaks runs at around 4 and has been comprehensively outbowled at domestic level by spinners either in his own side or in the opposition.

Your big long hyperbole about Jono Boult is made moot by the fact that Bout averages 5 runs less per wicket and almost an entire run less per over in the same domestic competition as Sodhi.

This continues the long held agenda by NZ Cricket to select a leg spinner even if they're struggling to hold their spot in the ND Line Up - hell, had Sodhi not been plucked from obscurity to become the next Greg Loveridge/Brooke Walker/Tarun Nethula/Todd Astle he'd have been dropped from ND at this point due to how bad he bowls for them.

Yet, I have a chip on my shoulder for pointing out he has no business at test level, and probably none at domestic, and acts far too arrogantly for someone who bowls as **** as he does. I think you've got a chip on your shoulder against people pointing out fact such as "Sodhi has no future in the game" - Do I assume people are idiots if they think Sodhi actually should be playing test cricket? Absolutely. Do I think we're stupid for playing both Sodhi and Craig knowing they'll have no impact on the result? Absolutely.

Yeah I see the FC side of things, but thats experience. Astle is 28 and arguably should be in bowling prime, most things should be figured out and its just a matter of pure execution. Ish has shown more than anyone else in recent times at that young an age, the last investment spin wise New Zealand made was Vettori.

I personally would of liked to have seen Tastle given a longer run even at home, as spin bowling here vs sub-continent is markedly different and the bounce here is a huge asset.

"Shown more than anyone else" - what, more ability to go for runs and not take wickets while doing it? Tarun Nathula, Brooke Walker, Todd Astle all had better starting stats than he's had. Ish hasn't shown anything except being "The next leg spinner for us to select, persist for a few tests with before realising we have to drop him"

The reality is when you make statements like this, I can't help but assume you don't follow the domestic game that closely, because at domestic level, even guys who are no hopers have had better returns than Sodhi. But we're supposed to believe he's going to develop into something amazing? Why? Because you say so?

"The last investment that NZ made in spin was Vettori" - complete utter ****.

Again, Astle, Loveridge, Nethula, Walker, Patel, - all guys picked young in their careers, where are they now? Only Astle has any chance of coming back into the fold and that's debatable - what's more, all of these guys have statistics that out performed Sodhi at respective points in their careers and continue to do so.

The idea that "Sodhi is the best we've seen since Vettori" is another myth perpetuated by people who clearly do not follow NZ cricket.

 

[Blocky]

Not to mention the only reason Sodhi's average isn't in the 60s is the tendency that McCullum and Flynn/Wilson have had of chucking him the ball when the tail is in so he can get some confidence restoring wickets.