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**Official** Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2014

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
there have been lots of ****y players who were awesome. it's more self awareness of your bowling/batting and a willingness to do what needs to be done imo. warne was probably still a bit of a **** back when he hadn't shown his ability yet.
Warne absolutely was, and he was a bit lazy as a result. There was a very famous incident were Terry Jenner ripped him a new one for being a fat, arrogant prick after his debut test against India. 6 months later, and he was well on his way to being the greatest leggie of all time.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Yeah, but the difference between them and Sodhi, is that they actually had a reason to be arrogant.
For some who may not be good enough, that self confidence is behind them putting in some performances above what most think they should be capable of.

E.g. Maxwell.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
there have been lots of ****y players who were awesome. it's more self awareness of your bowling/batting and a willingness to do what needs to be done imo. warne was probably still a bit of a **** back when he hadn't shown his ability yet.
Yeah Warne is a point in your favour - very ****y guy. Who else.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Yeah, but the difference between them and Sodhi, is that they actually had a reason to be arrogant.
Yeah it should be pretty obvious to all that Sodhi doesn't actually deserve his spot in the side. Sodhi could recognise this while still backing himself to get the job done anyway and cement the spot he's been given. Confidence and acceptance of reality aren't mutually exclusive.. so I disagree with Hurricane but I still don't think Sodhi thinking he deserves his spot in the side, if true, is any way a good thing.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Who would you pick as the NZ spinner, Blocky?
The reality is that almost none of the NZ posters would pick Sodhi. But yet we still get into arguments with Blocky about it because of the fact that he a) refuses to ever acknowledge anything in Sodhi's favour (e.g. the fact that a leggie, even a poor one, is probably a better option than an equally poor offspinner against a lineup with no lefties and on a very slow wicket) and b) he has an "I told you so" condescending tone even though all of us have constantly agreed that he's nowhere near NZ's best spinner.

The general hierarchy of NZ spinners:

Vettori (unavailable)
Jeetan Patel (unavailable)

lightyears
everyone else. They're all equally crap.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
For some who may not be good enough, that self confidence is behind them putting in some performances above what most think they should be capable of.

E.g. Maxwell.
Every top order batsman I have ever met has been ****y to a degree but the extra ****y never reached their potential as they had no character (see my post about Dean Jones he only made that knock because he changed his attitude imho)

sorry for quoting you by the way I am not responding to you specifically just wanted to make a point and you were vaguely on the topic i wanted to comment on.
 

Flem274*

123/5
The reality is that almost none of the NZ posters would pick Sodhi. But yet we still get into arguments with Blocky about it because of the fact that he a) refuses to ever acknowledge anything in Sodhi's favour (e.g. the fact that a leggie, even a poor one, is probably a better option than an equally poor offspinner against a lineup with no lefties and on a very slow wicket) and b) he has an "I told you so" condescending tone even though all of us have constantly agreed that he's nowhere near NZ's best spinner.

The general hierarchy of NZ spinners:

Vettori (unavailable)
Jeetan Patel (unavailable)

lightyears
everyone else. They're all equally crap.
not fair on tastle tbf. whatever you think of him as a test prospect, he's been a rare shining light in the domestic game for spin bowling. his returns are better than jeets in the shield.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
not fair on tastle tbf. whatever you think of him as a test prospect, he's been a rare shining light in the domestic game for spin bowling. his returns are better than jeets in the shield.
Maybe.

I would have picked Astle ahead of any other spinner but that's also partly to do with his batting.
 

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
Hang on a second here. I know the topic has moved on a bit but, other than Blocky, who's actually heard anything that points to Sodhi being arrogant and rating himself too highly?

Everything I've had to do with the guy (which isn't heaps) showed him to be a thoroughly nice guy who works really hard at his craft. If anything, he seemed a tad embarrassed that he'd made the team so quickly and looked overly eager to prove himself.
 

Flem274*

123/5
he cbf with the west indies tour (wanted to stay in county cricket) so i just think it's a continuation of that.

or maybe he wanted to go this time but the west indies tour refusal burned his bridges. either way it looks like his international career is over.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Why is Patel unavailable?
Made himself unavailable for the WI tour earlier in the year because he wanted to shore up his prospects with Warwickshire. Hasn't been considered since. Apparently he and Bruce Edgar are still in touch though - you never know, given his experience of English conditions he might still get a call up for the tour next year.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
I didn't follow his career but if he was ****y then he didn't achieve a great test match average so he would be a point in my favour.
He's from a different era of keeping though, compared to more natural contemporaries like Healy his record isn't too bad. And his keeping was slicker than anyone before or since.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
He's from a different era of keeping though, compared to more natural contemporaries like Healy his record isn't too bad. And his keeping was slicker than anyone before or since.
Is it true that he eventually gave up the gloves because he fancied himself as a batsman
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
This is a massive call but I think the Latham-Williamson partnerships over the next 10 or so years will be our most fruitful pairing ever.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
? He kept until he retired...except for a small patch where Lee Germon was made captain so Parore was demoted. He was kept in the side for his batting for a while, but as far as I'm aware he never deliberately gave up the gloves.
 

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