**Official** Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2014

[Flem274*]

you're right, people never get better at anything when they pass 30 and new zealand has so much opener depth we can ignore a guy who is very good at playing pace and a work in progress against spin bowling.

 

[hendrix]

you're right, people never get better at anything when they pass 30 and new zealand has so much opener depth we can ignore a guy who is very good at playing pace and a work in progress against spin bowling.

now you're just Blockying.

 

[Flem274*]

now you're just Blockying.

don't avoid the filter please

 

[Flem274*]

brownlie is gun against pace and spin play can be worked on. remember watling's first incarnation trying to play harbhajan? yeah. if that's blockying then im #teamblocky

 

[hendrix]

brownlie is gun against pace and spin play can be worked on. remember watling's first incarnation trying to play harbhajan? yeah. if that's blockying then im #teamblocky

He's an on-the-up driver and back foot hero. He's a non-wicketkeeping Brad Haddin or Luke Ronchi or several other Aussie middle order batsmen. He's "gun against pace" is an oversimplification. He'll score counter-attacking runs against good pace attacks on occasion for sure. But many batsmen will do that and also score the "easy" runs with more consistency.

 

[Flem274*]

name them

 

[hendrix]

name them

Rutherford, Papps and Guptill would all have similar output to Brownlie in the long term, with each having slightly different strengths and weaknesses. Maybe even Jamie How.

I haven't seen enough of Michael Bracewell and Jeet Raval to know whether they're more complete batsmen.

Anyway, my point is not that we have better batsmen than him, just that he's overrated and is just as unlikely to succeed as the rest of the batsmen mentioned. His abilities against pace are exaggerated and even if they weren't they don't make up for his weaknesses. We recognise Ronchi as a bit of a troll batsman (who actually has a ton against Southee and Boult on a Wellington green top), we should do the same with Brownlie. He shouldn't jump the cue of openers.

 

[Flem274*]

Rutherford, Papps and Guptill would all have similar output to Brownlie in the long term, with each having slightly different strengths and weaknesses. Maybe even Jamie How.

I haven't seen enough of Michael Bracewell and Jeet Raval to know whether they're more complete batsmen.

Anyway, my point is not that we have better batsmen than him, just that he's overrated and is just as unlikely to succeed as the rest of the batsmen mentioned. His abilities against pace are exaggerated and even if they weren't they don't make up for his weaknesses.

noted success against south africa and australia michael papps, noted success against half the planet rutherford and bowled through the gate or nicked off before he reaches 10 guptill.

brownlie is a better batsman than all of those guys you named unless guppys new technique is the shizz. papps lol.

 

[Blocky]

Most of these guys are stuck in a loop where Will Young is the solution, despite lacklustre results...

Personally, Raval is probably worth a shot to see how he plays at the top level. He's been pretty consistent as far as non-tried domestic opening options go - the move I want to see is either BMac or Ryder or both at the top but the selectors seem loathe to consider that as an option despite meaning we're potentially leaving one of our best four batsmen on the bench in order to bring in two openers.

 

[Blocky]

As for "Guptill's new technique" - the guy doesn't have a clue what happens to the bowl once it leaves his bat, he has absolutely no knowledge or awareness of where he's putting the ball and that's not a technique thing. He's progressively gotten worse since he made test level and a big part of that is that people have worked him out and don't give him things to hit. They also realise he can't rotate strike so they're bringing fielders in to keep him on strike and frustrate the other players.

T20, sure - select him. ODI? Select him on caveat that his role is simply to go from ball one and go hard. Tests? Forget about it. Put him in the Chris Harris camp - no matter what runs he scores in Domestic, who gives a ****.

 

[hendrix]

noted success against south africa and australia michael papps, noted success against half the planet rutherford and bowled through the gate or nicked off before he reaches 10 guptill.

brownlie is a better batsman than all of those guys you named unless guppys new technique is the shizz. papps lol.

See above:
- Ronchi ton on a green top vs Southee and Boult. Are we ready to chuck him in as opener?
- Brownlie noted success against any non-pace bowler. Can't you see equivalence here?

 

[Flem274*]

young is still 21. not everyone can be KW. still plenty of time for him to bring what we know he can bring consistently.

raval is just weird. should be solid but always scores one big ton per season and gets out for starts in the other 9 games. early last season he broke the mould a bit and i thought it would be his season to shine but he faded away. he also tends to go big on roads only despite having a respectable technique.

he's 26 too so he needs to hurry up and make a compelling case.

 

[Flem274*]

See above:
- Ronchi ton on a green top vs Southee and Boult. Are we ready to chuck him in as opener?
- Brownlie noted success against any non-pace bowler. Can't you see equivalence here?

the guys you suggested are hardly shining examples of playing spin you know.

ronchi tonned up at number 7 having a swing in the shield, a competition known for being challenging if you bat below number four.

it's no way equivalent to what brownlie has done at test level. comparing brownlie to ronchi is so wrong i don't know where to start.

if watling can go from shuffling no hoper to a test standard batsman in his own right if he couldn't keep wicket tomorrow, brownlie or any of these other ****s have no excuses. watling was meh at shield level.

 

[hendrix]

he's 26 too so he needs to hurry up and make a compelling case.

And yet Brownlie at 30 with one season of opening behind him has a more compelling case?

 

[Blocky]

Unfortunately Young comes from the Central Districts, where almost every youth talent never manages to go beyond being youth talent and even great domestic talent haven't had a great track record at converting it into international success.

Remove Ross the Boss and Old Jake Oram and you're left with the Jamie How, Matt Sinclair, Andrew Penn, Peter Ingram, Kruger Van Wyk leftovers.

 

[Flem274*]

And yet Brownlie at 30 with one season of opening behind him has a more compelling case?

no, but i never said he did. i said he's a good player we shouldn't cast aside.

 

[Flem274*]

Unfortunately Young comes from the Central Districts, where almost every youth talent never manages to go beyond being youth talent and even great domestic talent haven't had a great track record at converting it into international success.

Remove Ross the Boss and Old Jake Oram and you're left with the Jamie How, Matt Sinclair, Andrew Penn, Peter Ingram, Kruger Van Wyk leftovers.

kruger is canterbury's and we produced jesse. id also say we're a bit unfortunate to have our bowlers be two years younger than southee and boult. wheeler at least would have played test cricket by now if southee and boult never existed imo. milne might have been picked too, but on hope.

but otherwise you're right greg hay another who should probably have at least forced himself into the test team for a go. he gets shafted by even us though despite being our best batsman...

 

[hendrix]

no, but i never said he did. i said he's a good player we shouldn't cast aside.

There's no reason to fast-track him past the cue of similarly limited or flawed opening batsmen. He shouldn't be ahead of Flynn in the cue, IMO.

 

[Blocky]

the guys you suggested are hardly shining examples of playing spin you know.

ronchi tonned up at number 7 having a swing in the shield, a competition known for being challenging if you bat below number four.

it's no way equivalent to what brownlie has done at test level. comparing brownlie to ronchi is so wrong i don't know where to start.

if watling can go from shuffling no hoper to a test standard batsman in his own right if he couldn't keep wicket tomorrow, brownlie or any of these other ****s have no excuses. watling was meh at shield level.

Watling was never really "meh" at shield level, his average remained in the thirties despite being played on the batting graveyards that Whangarei, Gisborne and Hamilton were rolling out in the Aldridge/Arnel era of dominance. He was seen as a guy with a great well organised technique that hadn't adjusted/matured to international play. Now that he has been given a role in the side that remains consistent and has had time to bed in, he's really just shown what everyone expected him to do first time round - be a gritty dependable player who wouldn't set the world on fire but would be a great backbone to the unit.

Watling shows that someone with the right technique and temprement should be given chances to come back into the side - but the difference is that Watling wasn't spending energy/time rebuilding his technique from scratch like most of the other players had to, Watling was always capable against spin and pace.

 

[Blocky]

kruger is canterbury's and we produced jesse. id also say we're a bit unfortunate to have our bowlers be two years younger than southee and boult. wheeler at least would have played test cricket by now if southee and boult never existed imo. milne might have been picked too, but on hope.

but otherwise you're right greg hay another who should probably have at least forced himself into the test team for a go. he gets shafted by even us though despite being our best batsman...

Jesse polished himself in Wellington - might have just been another Noema-Barnett had he stayed in CD.

Milne just isn't ready. Wheeler looks good and will probably feature in the next two seasons, but then Penn looked great for a number of seasons, then there is Carl Bulfin, then there is Ewan Thompson, Aaron Schwass - dependable players who never took their chance at A level and ultimately got stuck at domestic.

And no - look at Australia, they've got about 10 bowlers going through rotation due to injury, form loss, etcetera... we want that too.