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Are we really going to pretend that Tim Southee...
- Thread starter Howsie
- Start date
Howsie
International Captain
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Anderson, please.
Harris and Southee have identical records, difference being Southee doesn't miss every second series.
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flibbertyjibber
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We could pretend if we pretended that Johnson doesn't exist at present.
Flem274*
123/5
southee is 5th at worst, and he, steyn, harris, johnson and anderson are a level above the rest. southee has taken on the anderson/harris like quality of making the attack around him bowl better somehow. those guys are the glue that keep other really good and destructive bowlers like broad, boult, whichever australian is fit this week etc performing. for whatever reason the latter fall to pieces without their leaders.
where you rank him depends on whether you want to go for career vs right now. steyn is the best no matter which way you look at it, but career hurts southee and harris but right now gives them a boost.
i don't know where to put johnson on career, but right now he's godlike in fast and bouncy conditions but needs his babysitter harris to help him out when he leaves the macho lands. i suspect howsie is giving southee a boost to second because southee has ripped india, sri lanka and the west indies to pieces in slow low turning conditions and johnson was nullified a bit, but then johnson had to put up with ****s being useless at the other end. like southee, harris has been crucial to wins in places like sri lanka.
southee has taken good poles at home, in england, in australia (back when he was **** even), the subcontinent and the west indies. south africa and the UAE are the final frontier for him and he hasn't bowled there. he's no longer just a fast medium swing bowler - he's got the bounce, the accuracy and the variations. the only thing he lacks is express pace, but at 135-140 he's sharp enough given his height. this is a brave call from howsie given the depth and competitiveness of pace bowlers around the world but it isn't crazy.
edit: actually me saying johnson needed babysitting is unfair. he bowled very well. he could have used some help though...
where you rank him depends on whether you want to go for career vs right now. steyn is the best no matter which way you look at it, but career hurts southee and harris but right now gives them a boost.
i don't know where to put johnson on career, but right now he's godlike in fast and bouncy conditions but needs his babysitter harris to help him out when he leaves the macho lands. i suspect howsie is giving southee a boost to second because southee has ripped india, sri lanka and the west indies to pieces in slow low turning conditions and johnson was nullified a bit, but then johnson had to put up with ****s being useless at the other end. like southee, harris has been crucial to wins in places like sri lanka.
southee has taken good poles at home, in england, in australia (back when he was **** even), the subcontinent and the west indies. south africa and the UAE are the final frontier for him and he hasn't bowled there. he's no longer just a fast medium swing bowler - he's got the bounce, the accuracy and the variations. the only thing he lacks is express pace, but at 135-140 he's sharp enough given his height. this is a brave call from howsie given the depth and competitiveness of pace bowlers around the world but it isn't crazy.
edit: actually me saying johnson needed babysitting is unfair. he bowled very well. he could have used some help though...
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Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Are you seriously writing off Philander already? I mean, I know he hasn't had the greatest year, but the fat **** averages 22 ffs.
Flem274*
123/5
absolutely not, but he was disappointing in some countries and i was talking mainly about the "drag the bowling attack with him" in that post. steyn never goes missing. sometimes philander has.
Teja.
Global Moderator
Southee is leagues ahead of Anderson as an away bowler and Anderson is only slightly better as a home bowler, IMO.
Posted this 48 hours ago in the NZ-Pak thread:
Posted this 48 hours ago in the NZ-Pak thread:
I think it's fairly close between him and Mitch and if Southee rips up here as opposed to just bowling reasonably well, he'll be the second best pacer in the world and third best bowler after Herath.
OverratedSanity
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Anderson's ridiculously overrated. Has a good series here and there mixed in with long periods of mediocrity.
Steyn and Johnson a level above the rest. Harris, if his knee still has something, is third. Southee a close 4th for me. He's only underrated by people who haven't seen him bowl.
Steyn and Johnson a level above the rest. Harris, if his knee still has something, is third. Southee a close 4th for me. He's only underrated by people who haven't seen him bowl.
flibbertyjibber
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I'm fine with Southee being rated above Anderson now but Southee isn't number 2. YET.
Teja.
Global Moderator
Anderson had an 18 month or so period in his absolute purple patch when he was a very good away bowler and during that phase he was truly outstanding and led from the front in UAE, India, Australia and SL.
That doesn't excuse the fact that he's been a **** away bowler for the remaining 9 years or of his career, including the last two. It'd be great if people stopped referring to that phase each time someone points it out
That doesn't excuse the fact that he's been a **** away bowler for the remaining 9 years or of his career, including the last two. It'd be great if people stopped referring to that phase each time someone points it out
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah this.
And while I rate Harris extremely highly, Johnson proved in South Africa and even in this series in the UAE (he was excellent IMO) that he's Australia's best. For a start, keeping fit is part of the criteria to being a good fastbowler. The biggest factor is the wickets though, and noone has been as effective as Johnson in the last year. He's just dominated in a way that noone else has.
A good series here will probably put Southee above Harris.
Flem274*
123/5
harris is the ****ing man and is the real rock in the australian attack. johnson is the glitzy glam boy who steals all of harris' limelight.
you take harris out of the attack and all of a sudden johnson's 145kph thunderbolts don't work as well because you need someone at the other end. take johnson out of the attack and harris' ability to set a batsman up and completely screw with him will still see him carry on his merry way being awesome.
**** i hate johnson now i think about it. gets all the credit, good at being a hard **** when he's winning and feeling ****y but we all remember his sooks. harris is a ****ing boss.
you take harris out of the attack and all of a sudden johnson's 145kph thunderbolts don't work as well because you need someone at the other end. take johnson out of the attack and harris' ability to set a batsman up and completely screw with him will still see him carry on his merry way being awesome.
**** i hate johnson now i think about it. gets all the credit, good at being a hard **** when he's winning and feeling ****y but we all remember his sooks. harris is a ****ing boss.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Johnson averaged 29 in a series in which his team averaged 80, and 67% of the wickets went to spin bowlers.
Yes, he would've done better with Harris at the other end. But that doesn't mean that Johnson taking all those wickets over the last year has been down to Harris.
Yes, he would've done better with Harris at the other end. But that doesn't mean that Johnson taking all those wickets over the last year has been down to Harris.