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*Official* Pakistan v Australia in UAE 2014

Blocky

Banned
If johnson Was bowling at his Ribs there wouldnt be any point in having a fielder there. Ffs. He wasnt wearing a sombrero and doing star jumps.
Right, because people behind the bowlers arm in the stadium and stands have to be doing massive star jumps and wearing bright colors for it to be distracting and off putting to the batsman right?

And the whole point of Johnson bowling short at the ribs was to follow up with the full and straight one seeking LBW/Bowled, so of course there is a "point" - as much as a bowlers backstop can have one.
 

Blocky

Banned
If you had that fielding position with Johnson bowling bouncers on a bouncy deck you'd probably need to have your brain examined because that would make no sense whatsoever.
Disagree, there is an absolute point, as much point as there is on "I want to make the batsman play squarer" (i.e no point at all) - like I said above, the follow up to the short ball is generally what? Another short ball? This isn't Craig McMillan we're talking about.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Disagree, there is an absolute point, as much point as there is on "I want to make the batsman play squarer" (i.e no point at all) - like I said above, the follow up to the short ball is generally what? Another short ball? This isn't Craig McMillan we're talking about.
You actually can't see the idea behind this?

Geez.
 

Blocky

Banned
You actually can't see the idea behind this?

Geez.
Way to posture and postulate.

I can see the point of wanting someone playing across the line, but putting in conventional mid ons and mid offs have for years blocked off straight down the ground and made the batsman consider other options - tell me exactly why placing someone directly behind the bowlers arm is the only way to "make the batsman play squarer" considering in about 1000 tests, this type of position hasn't been seen frequently, if at all.

And I guess Allan Border is also a nutcase with no knowledge of tactics due to him coming out and saying it's horrible as a tactic and not in the spirit of the game.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Way to posture and postulate.

I can see the point of wanting someone playing across the line, but putting in conventional mid ons and mid offs have for years blocked off straight down the ground and made the batsman consider other options - tell me exactly why placing someone directly behind the bowlers arm is the only way to "make the batsman play squarer" considering in about 1000 tests, this type of position hasn't been seen frequently, if at all.

And I guess Allan Border is also a nutcase with no knowledge of tactics due to him coming out and saying it's horrible as a tactic and not in the spirit of the game.
He had short mid-offs and mid-ons (including the covers and midwickets, he had about five of them). Yet Azhar was playing so straight that they weren't doing the job. The fielder was literally placed where he was hitting the ball with regularity. It's clearly not a conventional idea and it quite clearly didn't work, but this stuff about it being "deliberately distracting the batsman" is just silly. It is actually the result of the most simple pieces of cricketing logic imaginable - ball goes through gap, plug gap.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
yeah but I do think a straight, deeper mid-on (i.e. 2 metres to the right of where Johnson was) would've had the same effect without being in the line of the batsman.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
yeah but I do think a straight, deeper mid-on (i.e. 2 metres to the right of where Johnson was) would've had the same effect without being in the line of the batsman.
Sure, but there's a difference between "I don't know if this really works" and "spirit of cricket!!1!1"
 

Blocky

Banned
He had short mid-offs and mid-ons (including the covers and midwickets, he had about five of them). Yet Azhar was playing so straight that they weren't doing the job. The fielder was literally placed where he was hitting the ball with regularity. It's clearly not a conventional idea and it quite clearly didn't work, but this stuff about it being "deliberately distracting the batsman" is just silly. It is actually the result of the most simple pieces of cricketing logic imaginable - ball goes through gap, plug gap.
Yes, he had short mid-ons and mid-offs, notice I said conventional mid-ons and mid-offs.. If he's that concerned about Siddle being pumped straight back past him, he should tell him to adjust his length so he's not so easy to drive. The batsman stated that it was distracting. If you've batted with sight screens before in cricket you get entirely sensitive to anything other than a big white background in your eyeline. Having a cricketer moving around at all would have caught the eye and made it harder to see the ball - that's fact.

Considering most polls I've seen on the subject indicate that Australia's tactics weren't in the spirit of cricket and that any attempt to say differently puts you in the minority point of view, so maybe temper down the aggression, rhetoric and holier than thou posturing you're throwing at people who disagree with you.
 

Spikey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
christ almighty you've got maxwell at 3 and this is the tactic that's being argued about
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Sure, but there's a difference between "I don't know if this really works" and "spirit of cricket!!1!1"
Well I haven't said anything about the spirit of cricket, I just think the laws need an update. There's a sight screen for a reason.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Yes, he had short mid-ons and mid-offs, notice I said conventional mid-ons and mid-offs.. If he's that concerned about Siddle being pumped straight back past him, he should tell him to adjust his length so he's not so easy to drive. The batsman stated that it was distracting. If you've batted with sight screens before in cricket you get entirely sensitive to anything other than a big white background in your eyeline. Having a cricketer moving around at all would have caught the eye and made it harder to see the ball - that's fact.

Considering most polls I've seen on the subject indicate that Australia's tactics weren't in the spirit of cricket and that any attempt to say differently puts you in the minority point of view, so maybe temper down the aggression, rhetoric and holier than thou posturing you're throwing at people who disagree with you.
It's not Clarke's or any other fielding captain's job to deal with the potential distraction. It's the umpire's, and Nigel Llong quite clearly said that the fielder was fine so long as he didn't move as the bowler ran in - which he didn't. Whether the mere presence of the fielder is a distraction or not is, frankly, none of Clarke's business.

Meanwhile, internet polls are probably around the same level as fifth-hand anecdote as far as convincing evidence goes, but nice try on the tone policing regardless.

Well I haven't said anything about the spirit of cricket, I just think the laws need an update. There's a sight screen for a reason.
Oh yeah, I was more responding to the general topic rather than you specifically. I just think that this sort of thing is the umpire's job, and that people are actually spending more than five seconds complaining about it is just bewildering to me.
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I don't see what you arguing, Spark, tbh. One cannot place a fielder behind the bowler's arm. It is against the spirit of the game. There is no denying that. The intention of Clarke is of no matter here. It is a hindrance for the batsman when people are standing in that area. Some batsmen are more finicky about it, others are less so. Cricket games have interruptions consistently when people move behind the sight screen. There is a reason the sight screen is of one colour and not mulitcoloured. If the batsman loses the ball at the time of the bowler delivering it, it can lead to his dismissal.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
I don't see what you arguing, Spark, tbh. One cannot place a fielder behind the bowler's arm. It is against the spirit of the game. There is no denying that. The intention of Clarke is of no matter here. It is a hindrance for the batsman when people are standing in that area. Some batsmen are more finicky about it, others are less so. Cricket games have interruptions consistently when people move behind the sight screen. There is a reason the sight screen is of one colour and not mulitcoloured. If the batsman loses the ball at the time of the bowler delivering it, it can lead to his dismissal.
I'm basically arguing a mixture of:

- People are suggesting that Clarke did it to deliberately distract the batsman (see the first few posts in the debate), which is patent nonsense
- It's the umpire's job to police this sort of thing, not Clarke's (largely because it's somewhat nebulous precisely what constitutes "behind the bowler's arm"). The old system of batsman complains to umpire and umpire does something about it (or not) usually deals with such situations pretty well.
- Most importantly, this is utterly trivial and who gives a ****
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
They persisted with it essentially so long as Siddle was bowling (I definitely saw it after tea as well) because he was repeatedly getting pinged down the ground in his quest to get an LBW. It didn't work in that sense, but it did at least force Azhar to play squarer if he wanted to score off those sorts of deliveries - again, if you'd watched, you'd have known this, and you'd have something substantive to get worked up over as opposed to one screenshot.

As for the last red herring, I don't know and neither do you. I'd have hoped not given that, as I said, this is an amazingly trivial debate.
Point taken, I should stick to my own edict of not making comment on something you're not completely across.

Having said that, I still believe the area behind the bowler's arm is sacred in terms of fielders. If you need to be 2 steps either way and 2 steps back, that produces the same result. I still believe there was an element of distraction involved in it given he was immediately behind the arm, but I can't know that. I also don't know this but I don't think Michael Clarke, nor any media, would've taken too kindly to a man behind the arm when he was busy punching Anderson and co straight.

And honestly, if we eliminated every so-called trivial topic on CW, would we have much else to talk about? It's of interest to people, so they discuss it. I don't know if it's up to you to label what people take interest in as trivial. Allan Border felt it was worthy of discussion, in the very least.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't see what you arguing, Spark, tbh. One cannot place a fielder behind the bowler's arm. It is against the spirit of the game. There is no denying that. The intention of Clarke is of no matter here. It is a hindrance for the batsman when people are standing in that area. Some batsmen are more finicky about it, others are less so. Cricket games have interruptions consistently when people move behind the sight screen. There is a reason the sight screen is of one colour and not mulitcoloured. If the batsman loses the ball at the time of the bowler delivering it, it can lead to his dismissal.
Well obviously you can because we did

IMO, it's similar to a fielder's shadow on the pitch - no movement = ok
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Point taken, I should stick to my own edict of not making comment on something you're not completely across.

Having said that, I still believe the area behind the bowler's arm is sacred in terms of fielders. If you need to be 2 steps either way and 2 steps back, that produces the same result. I still believe there was an element of distraction involved in it given he was immediately behind the arm, but I can't know that. I also don't know this but I don't think Michael Clarke, nor any media, would've taken too kindly to a man behind the arm when he was busy punching Anderson and co straight.

And honestly, if we eliminated every so-called trivial topic on CW, would we have much else to talk about? It's of interest to people, so they discuss it. I don't know if it's up to you to label what people take interest in as trivial. Allan Border felt it was worthy of discussion, in the very least.
Perhaps so, but two steps either way is such a small margin that it starts to run into the question of "well, where do you draw the line, where is this invisible box that you decree 'distracting' and everything outside is 'not distracting'" and under the principle of precise arbitrariness often leading into hilarious self-contradictions, IMO the fielding captain should just best leave it to the common sense solution of letting the bloke in the white hat work it all out and just concentrating on how to get the ****er out.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Perhaps so, but two steps either way is such a small margin that it starts to run into the question of "well, where do you draw the line, where is this invisible box that you decree 'distracting' and everything outside is 'not distracting'" and under the principle of precise arbitrariness often leading into hilarious self-contradictions, IMO the fielding captain should just best leave it to the common sense solution of letting the bloke in the white hat work it all out and just concentrating on how to get the ****er out.
It would be pretty easy to set the width of the pitch as that invisible box.

I absolutely agree that it should be in the domain of the umpires. More importantly, it should be in the laws of the sport.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
It would be pretty easy to set the width of the pitch as that invisible box.

I absolutely agree that it should be in the domain of the umpires. More importantly, it should be in the laws of the sport.
The problem isn't in the setting, it's in the weird contradictions that result. It's a little like umpire's call for UDRS, when you get a ball which is smashing leg stump out of the ground but because it's 1mm to the legside of the middle of leg stump, it doesn't get overturned. When you try to impose strict but arbitrarily set bounds where previously no such thing applied, you often run into odd situations like that. You might, for example, get a situation where a batsman legitimately feels distracted by a fielding position but because the fielder is just outside the width of the pitch it's decreed OK (or vice versa). The umpire can then intervene, of course, but then you have to ask why the hell you bothered with the pitch width rule in the first place.
 

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