The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

Of course it can't. There's no way anyone can say Barry Richards is better than Hayden as a test batsman. Overall, taking his FC career and WSC, maybe,... but tests? No

I don't think anyone says he's a better test batsman. Just a better batsman

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't think anyone says he's a better test batsman. Just a better batsman

What does this mean, then?

That's the greatness of Richards though. His greatness over 4 tests can be stacked up over Hayden though he's played many more.

 

[Red]

There's not much point arguing about this stuff. There is no doubt Barry Richards was an incredible batsman. His FC records shows that. His all too brief test record shows that. His WSC record very very clearly shows that. Clearly four tests isn't enough to judge him as a test cricketer, but nearly everyone who saw him bat (good judges) say he was uncannily good, even to the point of being the second best of all time. For some people that's enough, for others he didn't prove himself. Dun matter, he was a great batsman.

 

[Red]

One of the really sad things about SA missing so many years was the fact that Barry Richards, Graham Pollock and Procter would've all legit been contenders for an ATG world XI, but the world just never got to see enough of them. They would've been the nucleus of a team about as great as the Australians of recent times, the WIs of the 80s and the Invincibles.

 

[kyear2]

One of the really sad things about SA missing so many years was the fact that Barry Richards, Graham Pollock and Procter would've all legit been contenders for an ATG world XI, but the world just never got to see enough of them. They would've been the nucleus of a team about as great as the Australians of recent times, the WIs of the 80s and the Invincibles.

Yup, probably the 4th best team in history.

Barry Richards was just brilliant, and for those who saw him was almost on par with the two batsmen who bracketed him as the best in the world. The great Sir Garry and his name sake Sir Issac Vivian.

 

[Flem274*]

From now on we should judge the greatness of cricketers by their performances in ICC 2013 all time great matches.

 

[the big bambino]

Calm down peeps. I made the adjustment for the Richards' comment. Fact that his fc record still trumps Hayden is impressive enough.

 

[bagapath]

Australian ODI XI of players who never played in the shorter format.

Trumper
Morris
Bradman
Harvey
McCartney
Gregory
Miller
Benaud (C)
Davidson
Lindwall
Tallon (wk)


This team can bat down to no 10. Seven of them, No 1 and No 5 to No 10, are thrilling stroke makers who will give it a serious whack. No. 2 and No. 4 are masters in building innings. No. 3, of course, will carry his bat in every game.

The bowling has the accurate pace and swing of miller and lindwall to dominate any batting line-up. gregory was a little erratic at times but he was express fast. davidson was much slower but always laser sharp. This combination should be good for any condition. Of course, the skipper richie benaud was a master spinner who will complete the attack with his bag of tricks.

 

[Dan]

Trumper
Macartney
Bradman
McCabe
Miller
Harvey
Davidson
Lindwall
Tallon +
O'Reilly
Grimmett

Batting line-up is a bit short, so perhaps remove Grimmett and play Jack Gregory in his place.

 

[Red]

Australian ODI XI of players who never played in the shorter format.

Trumper
Morris
Bradman
Harvey
McCartney
Gregory
Miller
Benaud (C)
Davidson
Lindwall
Tallon (wk)


This team can bat down to no 10. Seven of them, No 1 and No 5 to No 10, are thrilling stroke makers who will give it a serious whack. No. 2 and No. 4 are masters in building innings. No. 3, of course, will carry his bat in every game.

The bowling has the accurate pace and swing of miller and lindwall to dominate any batting line-up. gregory was a little erratic at times but he was express fast. davidson was much slower but always laser sharp. This combination should be good for any condition. Of course, the skipper richie benaud was a master spinner who will complete the attack with his bag of tricks.

Love this ****.

I'd go something like...

- Victor Trumper: Would've been an amazing limited overs opener. Nuf said really.
- Charlie Macartney: Think Gilly, or Sehwag, or Jaya, but maybe even better! Decent bowling option too.
- Don Bradman: Scored incredibly quickly and was the Don. Good fieldsman.
- Clem Hill: Along with Trumper, our greatest batsman pre Bradman. Nice to have a LH in the mix
- Keith Miller: Would've been the greatest ODI player of all time, given the chance. Big hitting bat, brilliant pace bowler, brilliant fielder.
- Warwick Armstrong: The big ship was a beautiful batsman and very steady slow bowler. Skipper of the XI
- Neil Harvey - Batting low, playing the Bevan/Hussey role, would've been masterful. One of our best fielders of all time.
- Alan Davidson: Miserly left armer, would've been similar to McGrath in his ability to tie good batsmen down.
- Ray Lindwall: Brett Lee style ODI bowler who would've been incredible in the shorter form. Capable batsman.
- Hanson "Sammy" Carter: Quality keeper who was playing "over the shoulder scoops" a long time before it became funky.
- Clarrie Grimmet: Miserly leggie, capable of tying down batsmen and causing rash shots.

Bowlers- Lindwall, Miller, Davidson, Grimmett, Armstrong and Macartney.

 

[bagapath]

England ODI XI from the earlier eras

Grace (c) (Tendulkar)
Ranji (Amla)
Dexter (Kohli)
Hammond (Kallis)
Compton (De Villiers)
Ames (wk) (Dhoni)
Jackson (S.Pollock)
Jessop (Afridi)
Rhodes (Shakib)
Trueman (Steyn)
Barnes (McGrath)

Bowlers: Trueman, Barnes, Rhodes, Jackson, Hammond. Sixth bowler: Jessop.

 

[the big bambino]

Are you likening the old time players to modern players in brackets? If so I like it though I think Jackson isn't strictly comparable to Pollock as he was a better bat while Pollock was a bowling all rounder.

 

[watson]

And an Australian Pre-WWII ODI team to challenge them....

01. Warren Bardsley
02. Victor Trumper
03. Don Bradman
04. Stan McCabe
05. Charlie Macartney
06. Warwick Armstrong (the non-obese 1907 version)
07. Monty Noble*
08. Jack Gregory
09. Bert Oldfield+
10. Edgar McDonald
11. Bill O’Reilly

Bolwers: McDonald - Gregory - O'Reilly - Noble - Armstrong - then Macartney or McCabe.

 

[Dan]

West Indies ODI-non-ODI XI:

1. Clyde Walcott +
2. Frank Worrell (7) *
3. George Headley
4. Everton Weekes
5. Seymour Nurse
6. Collie Smith/Charlie Davis (6)
7. Gerry Gomez (5)
8. Learie Constantine (3)
9. Charlie Griffith (2)
10. Wes Hall (1)
11. Sonny Ramadhin (4)

If we ignore Sobers' solitary ODI, slot him in for Smith and you'd have a very strong side indeed.

 

[Dan]

South Africa:

1. B Richards
2. E Barlow (6)
3. G Pollock
4. D Nourse
5. C Bland
6. A Faulkner (5)
7. M Procter (4)
8. J Cameron +
9. G le Roux (2)
10. N Adcock (3)
11. V van der Bijl (1)

 

[ankitj]

Who is Jackson? Stanely?

 

[watson]

Well in that case a ODI-non-ODI XI for Australia would be:

01. Arthur Morris
02. Victor Trumper
03. Don Bradman
04. Stan McCabe
05. Keith Miller
06. Neil Harvey
07. Richie Benaud
08. Alan Davidson
09. Ray Lindwall
10. Don Tallon
11. Bill O'Reilly

And I reckon that it may even beat the team which won the 1999 World Cup final in a 5 game head-to-head;

01. Mark Waugh
02. Adam Gilchrist
03. Ricky Ponting
04. Darren Lehman
05. Steve Waugh
06. Micheal Bevan
07. Tom Moody
08. Shane Warne
09. Paul Reiffel
10. Damien Fleming
11. Glenn McGrath

 

[watson]

South Africa:

1. B Richards
2. E Barlow (6)
3. G Pollock
4. D Nourse
5. C Bland
6. A Faulkner (5)
7. M Procter (4)
8. J Cameron +
9. G le Roux (2)
10. N Adcock (3)
11. V van der Bijl (1)

Looks like an odd strategic bowling order there Dan. One of Procter or Adcock charging in with the new ball?

 

[bagapath]

Pre WW I ODI World XI

Trumper
Grace (c)
Hill
Ranji
Faulkner (5)
Jackson (6)
Rhodes (4)
lilley (wk)
Barnes (3)
Loahmann (2)
Spofforth (1)

between wars ODI XI

Hobbs
Headley
Bradman (c)
Hammond (6)
McCabe
Gregory (3)
Cameron (wk)
Tate (2)
Larwood (1)
O'Reilley (4)
Grimmett (5)

Post WW2 pre ODI era ODI XI

Simpson (6)
B.Richards
Harvey
G.Pollock
Weekes
Walcott (wk)
Miller (4)
Lindwall (2)
Davidson(3)
Benaud (c) (5)
Trueman (1)

 

[bagapath]

1972 - 1992 ODI XI

Greenidge
Haynes
V. Richards (6)
Z. Abbas
Miandad
Imran (c) (1)
Kapil (4)
Hadlee (2)
Dujon (wk)
Garner (3)
Qadir (5)

Post 1993 ODI XI

Tendulkar
Gilchrist (wk)
Ponting
Kallis (5)
AB de Villiers
Symonds (6)
Dhoni (c)
S.Pollock (3)
Akram (1)
Murali (4)
McGrath (2)