Averaging 40 against and in all countries

[NUFAN]

Other Cricketers who have managed the feat:

Andy Ganteaume
Naveed Nawaz
Vic Stollmeyer
Desmond Lewis
Abul Hasan
Rodney Redmond
Barry Richards
Jermaine Blackwood

 

[Senile Sentry]

Nothing wrong. He didn't play as much as others in the era against them. Especially at Waqar's peak, when he was demolishing sides for fun.

Same can be said of Waqar as well. Lucky not to have played against Sachin & Sehwag in their respective primes, when Tendulkar was dismissing opposition bowlers for fun in the late 90s and Sehwag did it in the early noughties.

See it is futile to do such a "what if" analysis. Look, here is a guy who played cricket for 24-25 years and to say his record is somehow not "complete" is really taking it a bit extreme. How'd it be like to dismiss Muralitharan's records being anything less than awesome because he averaged badly in India and Australia.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Other Cricketers who have managed the feat:

Andy Ganteaume
Naveed Nawaz
Vic Stollmeyer
Desmond Lewis
Abul Hasan
Rodney Redmond
Barry Richards
Jermaine Blackwood

Obviously there needs to be a minimum runs critiera, or else Guantanamo Bay > Bradman.

 

[Migara]

Same can be said of Waqar as well. Lucky not to have played against Sachin & Sehwag in their respective primes, when Tendulkar was dismissing opposition bowlers for fun in the late 90s and Sehwag did it in the early noughties.

See it is futile to do such a "what if" analysis. Look, here is a guy who played cricket for 24-25 years and to say his record is somehow not "complete" is really taking it a bit extreme. How'd it be like to dismiss Muralitharan's records being anything less than awesome because he averaged badly in India and Australia.

LMAO. Wasim and Waqar at his peak would have roasted Sehwag for fun. Sachin of course is a better bet. Just pointed out he didn't play as much as others against 2Ws, and we all know they were all over India like a rash during those times.

 

[OverratedSanity]

LMAO. Wasim and Waqar at his peak would have roasted Sehwag for fun. Sachin of course is a better bet. Just pointed out he didn't play as much as others against 2Ws, and we all know they were all over India like a rash during those times.

Sehwag pummelled bowlers like Steyn, Akhtar, McGrath several times in the SC. Would've handled the Ws fine I think.

 

[NUFAN]

Obviously there needs to be a minimum runs critiera, or else Guantanamo Bay > Bradman.

So what is the minimum criteria, because Richards makes waaaay too many best XI teams. Anyway, the 40 mark is a pretty awesome achievement by Sachin..

 

[Senile Sentry]

So what is the minimum criteria, because Richards makes waaaay too many best XI teams. Anyway, the 40 mark is a pretty awesome achievement by Sachin..

Richards is way overrated in my opinion, not because I think he is a talentless hack, but his short International career is extrapolated far too long to make the cut in into all time XIs. But that's for another day, another discussion.I would propose a minimum of 2000 test runs to be the criteria.

Yep, it is indeed a fantastic achievement by Sachin.

 

[Pothas]

Amla to do this by the end of his career.

 

[Red]

I reckon if Sachin had played a lot of cricket against Wasim and Waqar., sometimes he'd have made a fair few runs and sometimes they'd get him cheaply.

 

[Red]

Richards is way overrated in my opinion, not because I think he is a talentless hack, but his short International career is extrapolated far too long to make the cut in into all time XIs. But that's for another day, another discussion.I would propose a minimum of 2000 test runs to be the criteria.n.

Made his rep in WSC. And was unreal. Not overrated.

 

[NUFAN]

Amla to do this by the end of his career.

He might not get another opportunity to average above 40 in Pakistan. If you count vs. Pakistan as away in Pakistan and UAE, he could very well reach the landmark.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Made his rep in WSC. And was unreal. Not overrated.

Talent is not in question. But extrapolation.

One or two series doesn't make an all time great. It is highly probable that had SA not being ostracised from the cricketing world, he might have become an ATG. But equally possible it could be the other way round as well. The rigours, the mundaneness of international cricket, the travelling around, the adjustments needed, all these wear a person down. It's not just about cricketing abilities alone.

 

[Dan]

This is not a thread about Barry Richards and longevity in ATG discussions.

Take that to the already-existing and done-to-death 'Did Barry Richards Play Long Enough to be an ATG'-style threads.

 

[Red]

This is not a thread about Barry Richards and longevity in ATG discussions.

Take that to the already-existing and done-to-death 'Did Barry Richards Play Long Enough to be an ATG'-style threads.

Dan, I thought that after page 3 of every thread the conversation was allowed to turn into ATG conversations...

 

[Dan]

It's still page 1 at 40ppp. Use a real post per page setting, not whatever rubbish setting you have it on.

 

[Red]

It's still page 1 at 40ppp. Use a real post per page setting, not whatever rubbish setting you have it on.

#dontknowhowtochangeitdontcare

 

[simonlee48]

LMAO. Wasim and Waqar at his peak would have roasted Sehwag for fun. Sachin of course is a better bet. Just pointed out he didn't play as much as others against 2Ws, and we all know they were all over India like a rash during those times.

I just checked 2 Ws record against India and it doesn't look like they were all over India like a rash.

------------------------------

Wasim's entire tests career : Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Wasim didn't play against India in test from 1990-1998. So I checked his ODI record in 1990-1998

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

-------------

Now for Waqar: Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

He played 2 tests against Indian when he was supposed to be in his peak and still pretty ordinary performance. He didn't play India in test from 1990-1998.

His record in ODI's in 1990-1998 : Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

------------------------------

It looks both of them had worse record than their career stats in period when they played only ODIs against India. When they were exactly all over Indians? I am genuinely curious because I didn't really see all India Pakistan matches but nothing jumps out to me when looking at stats. I recon, Sehwag would have made some big scores against 2 Ws just like he did against many ATG bowlers. He was a scary prospect in SC no matter who was bowling.

 

[Migara]

And easily forgetting that 1990-98 was the peak of both Wasim and Waqar.

Even in ODIs, Waqar's stats similar to his carre stats. Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
For Wasim, it thye same http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=2;opposition=6;template=results;type=bowling.

Pakistan didn't need Wasim or Waqar to demolish India, Aaqib Javed (ave. 24.6) and Imran (ave 22) didn't leave them with much in ODis when it came to demolishing India.

 

[Migara]

And easily forgetting that 1990-98 was the peak of both Wasim and Waqar.

Even in ODIs, Waqar's stats similar to his carre stats. Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
For Wasim, it thye same Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo.

Pakistan didn't need Wasim or Waqar to demolish India, Aaqib Javed (ave. 24.6) and Imran (ave 22) didn't leave them with much in ODis when it came to demolishing India.

 

[kyear2]

So it looks likely that Sachin is the only one to do this in the last 30 years ?

Of course there could be someone else like Kanhai, a bit below the all-time greats, but consistent enough to average 40 everywhere.

I wouldn't rate Kanhai as a bit below the ATGs, rather I would say he easily fits into the ATG category. They were many from his era who considered him the equal to Sobers.


Not to expand on the Barry Richards discussion, but a bowler of no lower status that D.K. Lillee has noted that the best 3 batsmen he has bowled to were Sobers and the two Richards. Not bad company to be rated in.