How good is Sanga?

[indiaholic]

OS's corner is basically Jassy-lite.

Yes. Agreed. Jassy seems to have something personal against Sangakkara, I don't. Just don't think he is good enough.

 

[Maximas]

IMO it's stupid to claim Sanga hasn't shown his greatness away from home, but it is certainly reasonable to say he hasn't done it prolifically like Sachin, Lara and Ponting did, and this does have a lot to do with short early season tours and a general lack of opportunity as OS was getting at.

 

[indiaholic]

IMO it's stupid to claim Sanga hasn't shown his greatness away from home, but it is certainly reasonable to say he hasn't done it prolifically like Sachin, Lara and Ponting did, and this does have a lot to do with short early season tours and a general lack of opportunity as OS was getting at.

He is a very good bastman overseas but just don't think his game around the offstump is good enough in genuinely challenging conditions, to call him great. Just doesn't seem tight enough. Mind you, he has gotten much better with age. Of course this could be just because he didn't get to play enough while he was young.

 

[Teja.]

WRT to Sanga being in the argument for being the best after Bradman, basically if you break it down, I don't think anyone can say Sanga is as good a batsman against either quality pace or spin as Tendulkar or Lara and beyond anything else that's massively telling, IMO.

 

[Jono]

Okay, I am in OS' corner. But I do feel he is very overrated. I think the elegance with which he bats and the eloquence with which he talks about the game make you want him to be better than he is.

That would be a good argument if he actually wasn't scoring a ****load of runs at a supreme average.

Alas he is.

By the way if you think Sanga isn't as good as Lara you aren't in Jassy's corner ffs.

 

[Jono]

Also Jassy is the closest thing we've had to Richard in terms of being in denial and refusing to be wrong since Richard.

 

[Jono]

WRT to Sanga being in the argument for being the best after Bradman, basically if you break it down, I don't think anyone can say Sanga is as good a batsman against either quality pace or spin as Tendulkar or Lara and beyond anything else that's massively telling, IMO.

Yes but importantly, thinking Sanga isn't as good as Tendulkar or Lara doesn't mean you're in Jassy's corner. Which is a corner where the dogs go to ****.

 

[Prince EWS]

Also Jassy is the closest thing we've had to Richard in terms of being in denial and refusing to be wrong since Richard.

Benchmark00 on John Davison's playing role.

 

[Dan]

Cribb on politics imo

#CheapShot

 

[OverratedSanity]

OS's corner is basically Jassy-lite.

Well yeah, that's because I agree with some of Jassy 's points. His tone is infuriating but somewhere beneath the irrational hate and denial, there's a shred if factual information.

 

[paulted]

Check through the records...How many "great" players hundreds actually were a contributory factor to victories? Its all very well scoring runs when your team mates are doing so. Scoring runs in difficult conditions is where it counts, sanga has done so, likewise Dravid, Lara, Border.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Jassy's corner - GIJ, Indiaholic, OS

Planet delusion - Jono, Flem and his pony.

 

[Dan]

Don't forget the rocks. Lots of rocks.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Don't forget the rocks. Lots of rocks.

Judging by their stance, those are apparently all lodged in the head.

 

[Dan]

Exactly why they need to be mentioned, IMO.

Just wait though, when Phlegm wakes up he's going to start with all that geology **** and redraw the boundaries. Nothing but a cheap attempt to breathe life into his inanimate argument.

All of us enlightened gentlemen know that Sangakkara was nothing but a glorified Mark Ramprakash!

 

[simonlee48]

For those who compared him to Lara and Ponting (and even Dravid) - lol. He is not even close to Ab de Villiers and against any side not named Pakistan/Bangladesh/Zimbabwe on non dead wickets, Pietersen is much better than him.

These are the left handed batsman's overall averages against different teams (his overall average is 58.55):

Vs Australia 43.90 1 century (century in the match where FTB Jayawardene scored a ton but obv when Sanga batted it became a minefield and a green top)
Vs England 40.20 3 centuries
Vs New Zealand 48.00 3 centuries
Vs South Africa 48.73 (courtesy 287 on his favourite pitch in a match where Jayawardene scored 500 runs)

Pakistan's attack is literally the only decent team(bowling attack wise) he averages 50+ against and if you would care to look at the scorecards of those matches, those were mostly 700 vs 600 kind of draws. .

Pakistan has been easiest place to tour and score runs. They have been only better than BD in picking wickets cheaply at home in the last 10 years.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Even with UAE and having one super low score series against Eng, they still come only second to BD when you take Pakistan + UAE.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Nothing wrong in cashing in when touring them but Pakistan has been one of the easier team to score run against in the test format. It's not the Pakistan of 90s we are talking about.

On Topic: Sanga will surely go down as legend. Having seen the career of batsmen in the last 25 years, I will place him below Kallis and Dravid. He is not even the best currently playing batsman in my opinion. In all likelihood , AB will go down as a better batsman than Sanga.

 

[viriya]

How is pointing out clear flaws in your argument (flaws which incidentally make your case look a lot stronger than it should do if you provided correct information) nit-picking?

Oh I agree that it's not his fault that he didn't play in the 90s, but he;s had the fortune to play at a time when in general bowling standards are lower.

Yea, like you ignoring the Sanga vs Pak and Eng I pointed out. Apparently it's impossible to be a ATG in batting these days since there are no good bowlers.. how sad.. So AB doesn't get to face his own team's attack - autodisqualification.

 

[Jassy]

Yes but importantly, thinking Sanga isn't as good as Tendulkar or Lara doesn't mean you're in Jassy's corner. Which is a corner where the dogs go to ****.

This post is about as classy as Sanga's batting in testing conditions. Besides, your post cannot be correct because I have not seen you in my corner in ages

@the other posts in this thread : firstly yes, Pakistan over the last decade has seen the flattest pitches which is why while it is great to do well against them, it isn't good enough when you are talking about someone being an ATG.

I dislike Sanga but I have nothing personal FFS(he whines too much on the field is a cheat and puts on a fake accent that sounds like Justin B but that doesn't make it personal)I have happily admitted being wrong about something in the past. I thought de villiers was just someone capable of scoring in pressure free situations but his innings vs Aus made me change my mind and I even admitted it, but if youth ink scoring runs on the worst pitches you could possibly get in England is going to change my mind, then not happening...no more than him failing on lively pitches or turning pitches will change yours.

While I may have gone overboard with my rant, people go overboard with their praise of Sanga too acting like there is light shining out of his every orifice. Fact is...and the records prove it...that whenever he is against attacks in testing conditions he generally comes up well short. He is a good two levels below Ponting, Lara and Sachin and a good level below Dravid and Kallis. He is comparable to the Sehwags, Mahelas and Mohammad Yousufs. You can blame the schedule and whatever for it (and while that does have merit it also helps sometimes like in the recent series where he most certainly would have had to deal with a livelier pitch in a bigger series) it is what it is.

 

[viriya]

My heartiest congrats to Kumar Sangakkara for making the most of two of the flattest pitches you're likely to see in England.

The first Test pitch for Ind vs Eng was flatter than both pitches used in SL vs Eng. Otherwise ATG batsmen like Kohli, Rahane and Pujara failed to make merry in that though so I'm not sure they are even good enough to be called FTB? I guess if you don't get any runs on a flat track it doesn't matter anymore. Let's ignore Lara's 400*, 375.. all flat track records to be expunged from the record books!

Vs Australia 43.90 1 century
Vs England 40.20 3 centuries
Vs New Zealand 48.00 3 centuries
Vs South Africa 48.73

When has averaging <2 runs below 50 vs a team been deemed a failure?

Some averages of supposedly great batsmen:
Lara vs India 34.55
Lara vs NZ 41.41
Tendulkar vs Pak 42.28
Tendulkar vs SA 42.46
Ponting vs Eng 44.21
Ponting in India 26.48
Kallis vs Aus 41.22
Kallis vs Eng 44.60
Kallis in Eng 35.33
Kallis vs SL 38.86
Dravid vs Aus 38.67
Dravid vs SA 33.83
Dravid in SA 29.71
Dravid in SL 33.10

I guess we didn't have any great batsmen in the last 20 years...

Pakistan-Yasir Arafat, Danish Kaneria, Sohail Tanveer and whatever jokers

Come on now - you don't need to try that hard to ignore the best spinner in the world.

Abd is miles ahead of this bloke. Kohli already has 3 centuries outside the SC to this guy's 6 and will surpass him.

AB vs Ban 17.25
AB vs Ind 41.19
AB vs NZ 39.00
Kohli vs Eng 22.20
Kohli vs WI 27.88

AB can't even average 20 vs Ban - what a loser!

Fix your sig - at least get the facts right.

 

[Jassy]

Lol what a load of bollocks. Aren't you the bloke who was arguing that dravid with an average of 41 or something had failed in Aus but when pointed out that Sanga outside Asia averaged less than that you quickly backtracked? Averaging 2 short of 50 would be acceptable if it didn't also include a pathetic pitch where Mahila scored 500 runs lol. Dravid averages more than 50 outside the Sc and has test tons everywhere. Tendulkar has what 15 tons plus outside Asia and doesn't average 40 or whatever against the good sides even at home, Kallis has a record the Bangladesh basher can dream of perhaps....ABD is miles ahead of Sanga. The biggest whine from Sanga fans is that he averages some crazy number as a pure batsman. See what he averaged even when he kept wickets. Pujara, Kohli and Rahane will soon have more tons outside Asia than Sangakkara and the ton Rahane got on the Lords green top is better than anything Sangakkara has ever managed. I have had enough of this Sang nonsense now. You can keep calling him better than Bradman for all I care.

Ab is too busy smashing Aus to worry about Bangladesh Sanga needs to do well vs Bangladesh because he sucks vs Aus and all good attacks in testing conditions. Over and out.