***Official*** India in England 2014

[Flem274*]

Let me put it another way, between Cook as batsman and captain, or Pietersen as batsman and captain - who do you think has more chance of winning the next match against India?

Neither, because this is a team so down on itself they're being terrorised by the mighty Dhammika Prasad and Ishant Sharma.

They're not even capitulating to the good bowlers (bar Bhuvi). They're bloody fortunate Suranga Lakmal wasn't touring or they might have been bowled out for 50 since they're so determined to pick the worst bowler to get out to.

 

[Blocky]

Neither, because this is a team so down on itself they're being terrorised by the mighty Dhammika Prasad and Ishant Sharma.

They're not even capitulating to the good bowlers (bar Bhuvi). They're bloody fortunate Suranga Lakmal wasn't touring or they might have been bowled out for 50 since they're so determined to pick the worst bowler to get out to.

Pietersen has a history of turning around matches with rapid knocks, he's done it against some of the best attacks in the world including McGrath, Warne and co. He'll also encourage the team to fight and won't just sit back and say "Oh well, Plan A didn't work... what now?"

Makes me all the more happy that we have McCullum in NZ.

 

[Cabinet96]

Need I remind people - England have lost seven of their last nine test matches while under Cook. This was a side that prior to the reign of Cook were ranked #1 in the world.

This isn't true. In the four series before Cook took over, England lost two, drew one and beat the West Indies at home in the other. They'd let a large lead at the top of the rankings slip in a year. Then in the first year under Cook, they lost just one of their first 14 tests, which included a series win in India and a 5-0 scoreline combined against Australia and New Zealand at home. In contrast Strauss' last 14 tests he'd lost 6, all of which had come in the last 11 games of that reign.

Realistically England's decline has been evident since the beginning of 2012. They still won matches for a couple of years because they still had very good players (even if they weren't operating at the level they had for two years prior consistently). The removal of Trott, KP and Swann from the side, added to by the combination of every other established player playing below their best has suddenly turned them from good/decent to Godawful.

If you think Cook is a bad captain tactically, fails to motivate his players well etc, fine. But to try and say Cook took over a side that couldn't lose where everything was rosy and suddenly turned them into this laughing stock is ridiculously unfair.

 

[DriveClub]

I just want to know why England want to have 11 followers and yes men rather than their best players? What's the reason for this shi**y team culture? Any basis for picking a team is you pick the 11 best players and manage them, not the other way around. It's not only KP, they dropped Compton for a similiar reason, he's supposedly moody and an ambitious loner so they dropped him, whether he's good or bad is besides the point for them, they want the new players to fit into this bubble irrespective of whether they can play. I hate pompous sporting teams like that, bunch of spoilt brats, just ****ing go and play. Bunch of elitist *****

 

[Cabinet96]

I really don't think Moeen Ali or Stokes should be dropped. Yeah, Stokes was poor with the bat but he's playing as 4th bowler and in that role he performed very well.

I kind of felt like this yesterday and maybe I'm overreacting at a time when I'm still a bit pissed off, but my God he was awful today. Team needed him to really dig in, stay with Root and get some tough runs when they needed them and he plays a shot like that. Where you're batting isn't an excuse when it comes to the fourth innings of a major test match. The bloke needs to get a grip. He's been sent home from two of his last three tours due to temperament and attitude issues and has had some very poor dismissals with the bat. You can't just rely on some pure talent and he needs to learn that. With potentially a pure gloveman coming in for the next test, I'd throw Woakes in as a replacement to try and stiffen the batting. I know lots of people don't rate Woakes but he's definitely been a better batsman than Stokes in the Championship and better than some of the other batsman who have got goes recently. Think he deserves a few tests at 7 as an all-rounder to prove himself, rather than just giving him a trial test in conditions that don't suit and discarding him when he doesn't pull off miracles (partially due to bad light).

 

[cnerd123]

What England need to do is take the hard road and fix their best players. I doubt Broad and Anderson are bowling too short on purpose. There might be some technical adjustments they need to make. Likewise Cook needs some help with a fix up too. I don't know who the best technical coaches in England are but they need to get around the English senior players and get Cook back in balance and the two opening bowlers pitching it up. England are a few senior players in form away from being a top four side again. That doesn't sound so hard.

You can't fix players with so much international cricket happening and so little time off.

If they need to be fixed, refreshed etc, they need to be dropped/rested and have some time off, some time in the nets, and some time in county cricket to get things together.

It's the same thing that happened to Finn, and now he's gotten better away from the England setup and from the grind of international cricket.

I don't think anyone would advocate for Cook, Bell, Anderson and Broad to be completely done away with. But they could do with a rest. If not mid-series then definitely after. Give them some time off to get their heads right and their niggles sorted.

But it does say a lot about the flaws in the English system that the national teams setup breaks players instead of raising their game.

 

[Cabinet96]

England don't play any tests from the end of August to April ftr. I know there's the small matter of a world cup but tests specialists can still do loads of work on their game in that time.

 

[Blocky]

England don't play any tests from the end of August to April ftr. I know there's the small matter of a world cup but tests specialists can still do loads of work on their game in that time.

Bell, Cook, Anderson and Broad are all ODI players though and will not want to miss out on the World Cup. I think if England do not claim at least one of the remaining tests, you'll be saying goodbye to Cook and possibly Bell for quite some time though.

 

[91Jmay]

England haven't got a prayer of winning the World Cup, so I wouldn't mind, as long as it is made totally clear and honestly to the public, those players being given time to work on their test games.

That being said they did have a fair amount of time and red ball cricket away from England prior to the Sri Lanka series. Jimmy took wickets for Lancs, Cook scored runs for Essex. Broad was injured and didn't get to play much, granted but they were all in pretty good form going into it. I think the decline may be terminal in Cook, Anderson (without question Prior) and whilst Jimmy still worth his place as he is a good bowler we need to find genuine wicket taking options outside of him.

Finn sounds like he is bowling better, he is a proven wicket taker and is different from what we have. I'd bring him back for Old Trafford which tall pace bowlers have had success on.

 

[honestbharani]

Considering your nationality, you should be one of the last people calling for a Lee Germon.

This is such a Blocky post. Ignore how terrible KP's captaincy was last time he tried it, and how few runs he's scored in any format this summer, get the dick swinging glossy alpha male in there to sort things out.

Cook needs to go but he led them to a series win in India, so he's not terrible. He's just an average captain in **** form leading a side with no confidence. Burgey may have been trolling but he's probably right England saw Ishant bang it in and had flashbacks of Johnson. They're scared of losing, and they don't think they can win.

It takes a special leader to bring a team back from this and it won't happen this series. Cook isn't their guy. A self serving **** who probably masturbates to himself in the mirror like KP isn't that guy. Superb player and he's got the stones to lead with bat in hand but he's not a skipper.

He didn't fill me with confidence as a batsman or a captain at DD this year in the IPL but I think his captaincy was decent to good in his test stint, esp. against India.. The Chennai loss was more down to a blitzkrieg from Sehwag when it was least expected and a determined Sachin and Yuvraj on a pitch that did not break up as much as it promised to.. And he did give confidence to Swann as a bowler, and no matter what that jerk said in his book, I think KP showing confidence in him and bowling him before Monty at times, gave him the confidence to do well at test level... I am not saying he should be captain but he would be one of those "leaders" you would want around the side with so many youngsters around.. AT the end of the day, younger players will make mistakes, both on and off the field, and while there can be blokes around who tell them why it is wrong, it is equally important they have a senior figure who they think is cool about such stuff and with whom they can share jokes about it and move on.. I think it happens in any workplace and I don't see why it would be different in a cricket, or indeed, a sports team...

 

[Cabinet96]

Think Finn should just be given the whole season with Middlesex tbh. If we want any shot at all of winning the World Cup he has to play so it'd be a good testing ground before the West Indies tour (where you'd back him to do quite well theoretically) and then the 2015 Ashes.

I wouldn't be so downbeat on our chances in the World Cup though. We got the Champions Trophy final after all and it's only Trott who will definitely be absent from that side. Obviously it's hugely reliant on most of the senior players coming good again and hitting form and it's impossible to confidently say they will, but you never know.

 

[Prince EWS]

Think Finn should just be given the whole season with Middlesex tbh. If we want any shot at all of winning the World Cup he has to play so it'd be a good testing ground before the West Indies tour (where you'd back him to do quite well theoretically) and then the 2015 Ashes.

I wouldn't be so downbeat on our chances in the World Cup though. We got the Champions Trophy final after all and it's only Trott who will definitely be absent from that side. Obviously it's hugely reliant on most of the senior players coming good again and hitting form and it's impossible to confidently say they will, but you never know.

Trott is a massive, massive hole in the side considering the way it functioned in the CT though:

Cricket Records | ICC Champions Trophy, 2013 - England | Records | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

England also played to an ODI game plan that works very well in the UK but not so well anywhere else.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I just want to know why England want to have 11 followers and yes men rather than their best players? What's the reason for this shi**y team culture? Any basis for picking a team is you pick the 11 best players and manage them, not the other way around. It's not only KP, they dropped Compton for a similiar reason, he's supposedly moody and an ambitious loner so they dropped him, whether he's good or bad is besides the point for them, they want the new players to fit into this bubble irrespective of whether they can play. I hate pompous sporting teams like that, bunch of spoilt brats, just ****ing go and play. Bunch of elitist *****

A supposedly moody and ambitious loner who was averaging about thirty when the axe fell and who'd scored all of roughly half a run in the series prior to his dropping.

After the plug was pulled Compton was quite keen to suggest it was because his face didn't fit, but really there were pretty solid cricketing reasons to give him the arse.

KP's exit makes far less sense, but his one career-long habit is ending up on the outers of every team he's ever played in from Natal through Warwickshire 2nds to Notts, Hants and England.

 

[honestbharani]

TBF, I think both these teams will be toast in the ODI WC.. I think it will be an Australia - NZ final.. Or maybe this is finally RSA's time.. There is nothing AB Devil can't do He is international cricket's Rajinikanth

 

[Cabinet96]

Trott is a massive, massive hole in the side considering the way it functioned in the CT though:

Cricket Records | ICC Champions Trophy, 2013 - England | Records | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

England also played to an ODI game plan that works very well in the UK but not so well anywhere else.

Yeah, I meant to mention that admittedly he was probably the one player you'd want to lose least. But still, maybe because of Trott's absence that dynamic that only worked really well in the UK might adapt and actually end up working better in Oceania - though I don't think we ever really got a fair chance to see how it worked there (and we did win in NZ in 2013).

 

[hendrix]

I kind of felt like this yesterday and maybe I'm overreacting at a time when I'm still a bit pissed off, but my God he was awful today. Team needed him to really dig in, stay with Root and get some tough runs when they needed them and he plays a shot like that. Where you're batting isn't an excuse when it comes to the fourth innings of a major test match. The bloke needs to get a grip. He's been sent home from two of his last three tours due to temperament and attitude issues and has had some very poor dismissals with the bat. You can't just rely on some pure talent and he needs to learn that. With potentially a pure gloveman coming in for the next test, I'd throw Woakes in as a replacement to try and stiffen the batting. I know lots of people don't rate Woakes but he's definitely been a better batsman than Stokes in the Championship and better than some of the other batsman who have got goes recently. Think he deserves a few tests at 7 as an all-rounder to prove himself, rather than just giving him a trial test in conditions that don't suit and discarding him when he doesn't pull off miracles (partially due to bad light).

Yeah but you'd be dropping him for a poor shot when the match was probably already lost once Prior was out (and really, before day 5). India still had in excess of 130 runs IIRC, and the new ball to call upon whenever they wanted.

The (muddled) thinking was that they needed to score before the new ball. It was poor thinking but that's what he was going for. It would have been more inexcusable had they only required 50 odd but they were quite far away and needed to get close before the game would be in the balance.

I think the partnership between Root and Moeen has done England an injustice by making this target more gettable than it really was. England were never close to getting there and the fact that wickets fell in clumps (as they always do in these types of chases) is providing a red herring. The match was lost before day 5.

 

[Cabinet96]

A supposedly moody and ambitious loner who was averaging about thirty when the axe fell and who'd scored all of roughly half a run in the series prior to his dropping.

After the plug was pulled Compton was quite keen to suggest it was because his face didn't fit, but really there were pretty solid cricketing reasons to give him the arse.

Solid enough reasons to grant Bairstow a full five match Ashes series after deciding Compton wasn't good enough based on two tests though?

 

[Blocky]

A supposedly moody and ambitious loner who was averaging about thirty when the axe fell and who'd scored all of roughly half a run in the series prior to his dropping.

After the plug was pulled Compton was quite keen to suggest it was because his face didn't fit, but really there were pretty solid cricketing reasons to give him the arse.

KP's exit makes far less sense, but his one career-long habit is ending up on the outers of every team he's ever played in from Natal through Warwickshire 2nds to Notts, Hants and England.

Had no issues where there was strong leadership though - played and integrated well at Hants when Warne was captain, played and integrated well with England when Vaughan was captain.

 

[hendrix]

Solid enough reasons to grant Bairstow a full five match Ashes series after deciding Compton wasn't good enough based on two tests though?

or, more importantly, to move Root from a performing number 6 to an opening batsman?

 

[Cabinet96]

or, more importantly, to move Root from a performing number 6 to an opening batsman?

That too.

I blame the same Yorkshire bandwagon that's beginning to threaten again. Weren't you satisfied with attempting to sabotage our short term chances last year?