Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
You missed out. Its an awesome bandwagon telling Kallis deniers that they are fools.
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How good is Sanga?
- Thread starter CWB304
- Start date
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Common opposition is bollocks when the players played in different eras though as bowling attacks change over time. The only one's which haven't really are the 2 junk attacks, the one's which inflate Sanga's record considerably compared to almost any other player.
It's hardly nitpicking to point something like that out.
viriya
International Captain
I was pointing to your Lara vs SL claim as nitpicking.. the Ban/Zim point is invalid when the %s are the same. It's not Sanga's fault he didn't play in the 90s so its a pointless argument.
My heartiest congrats to Kumar Sangakkara for making the most of two of the flattest pitches you're likely to see in England. I expected him to fail and he most definitely would have if Sri Lanka had got Lords like pitch that India did....not pitches where Murali Vijay and Bhuvaneshwar are making hay.
Anyway so now his average in England is over 40, well done to the champ (a reprieve where the umpire didn't spot an edge helped but it is what it is).
For those who compared him to Lara and Ponting (and even Dravid) - lol. He is not even close to Ab de Villiers and against any side not named Pakistan/Bangladesh/Zimbabwe on non dead wickets, Pietersen is much better than him.
These are the left handed batsman's overall averages against different teams (his overall average is 58.55):
Vs Australia 43.90 1 century (century in the match where FTB Jayawardene scored a ton but obv when Sanga batted it became a minefield and a green top)
Vs England 40.20 3 centuries
Vs New Zealand 48.00 3 centuries
Vs South Africa 48.73 (courtesy 287 on his favourite pitch in a match where Jayawardene scored 500 runs)
Pakistan's attack is literally the only decent team(bowling attack wise) he averages 50+ against and if you would care to look at the scorecards of those matches, those were mostly 700 vs 600 kind of draws. Even against India he smashed on Abhimanyu Mithun and the likes at home...but when he goes to India he averages 36.5 despite a no-hope-match-gone bashing ton (much like his ton against England last time around with, an innings where Sehwag got him lbw a million times...that is for those who still whine about Hobart). His fans will whine about how his record in WI is meaningless because of sample size but will trumpet his record in Aus and Nz. I can't say about NZ, but if he goes to Aus now, he will get pwned by Harris and co. Of course he will retire without touring Aus and Nz again, will not want to spoil those records.
His record outside the subcontinent is still satisfactory (as opposed to great) despite all the flat pitch bashing in the recent series. Kudos to him for scoring 18/36 centuries against Bangladesh/Zimbabwe/Pakistan-Yasir Arafat, Danish Kaneria, Sohail Tanveer and whatever jokers but he will remain a flat pitch and weak opposition bully.
Abd is miles ahead of this bloke. Kohli already has 3 centuries outside the SC to this guy's 6 and will surpass him. On second thoughts, he doesn't take advantages of flat tracks as Sangakkara does. If this guy is comparable to Ponting and Lara, then Mohammad Yousuf and Inzamam also are.
Anyway so now his average in England is over 40, well done to the champ (a reprieve where the umpire didn't spot an edge helped but it is what it is).
For those who compared him to Lara and Ponting (and even Dravid) - lol. He is not even close to Ab de Villiers and against any side not named Pakistan/Bangladesh/Zimbabwe on non dead wickets, Pietersen is much better than him.
These are the left handed batsman's overall averages against different teams (his overall average is 58.55):
Vs Australia 43.90 1 century (century in the match where FTB Jayawardene scored a ton but obv when Sanga batted it became a minefield and a green top)
Vs England 40.20 3 centuries
Vs New Zealand 48.00 3 centuries
Vs South Africa 48.73 (courtesy 287 on his favourite pitch in a match where Jayawardene scored 500 runs)
Pakistan's attack is literally the only decent team(bowling attack wise) he averages 50+ against and if you would care to look at the scorecards of those matches, those were mostly 700 vs 600 kind of draws. Even against India he smashed on Abhimanyu Mithun and the likes at home...but when he goes to India he averages 36.5 despite a no-hope-match-gone bashing ton (much like his ton against England last time around with, an innings where Sehwag got him lbw a million times...that is for those who still whine about Hobart). His fans will whine about how his record in WI is meaningless because of sample size but will trumpet his record in Aus and Nz. I can't say about NZ, but if he goes to Aus now, he will get pwned by Harris and co. Of course he will retire without touring Aus and Nz again, will not want to spoil those records.
His record outside the subcontinent is still satisfactory (as opposed to great) despite all the flat pitch bashing in the recent series. Kudos to him for scoring 18/36 centuries against Bangladesh/Zimbabwe/Pakistan-Yasir Arafat, Danish Kaneria, Sohail Tanveer and whatever jokers but he will remain a flat pitch and weak opposition bully.
Abd is miles ahead of this bloke. Kohli already has 3 centuries outside the SC to this guy's 6 and will surpass him. On second thoughts, he doesn't take advantages of flat tracks as Sangakkara does. If this guy is comparable to Ponting and Lara, then Mohammad Yousuf and Inzamam also are.
That is what Sanga tastes whenever he is up in helpful conditions and/or against a decent team away from his Galle/Colombo/Kandy. I guess the Kiwi team is used to the taste as well..seeing as it gets handed to them every time they play someone other than Bangladesh or Zimbabwe. In fact, New Zealand and Sanga have a lot in common.
ohnoitsyou
International Regular
If you thought blocky vs ww was good, wait for blocky vs jassy
Oh man, when Blocky comes back into this thread it could be very, very painful reading.
The exact opposite ends of the spectrum -- Sanga's the best since Bradman vs. Sanga's barely better with the bat than Ishant Sharma.
Man makes some good points.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
How is pointing out clear flaws in your argument (flaws which incidentally make your case look a lot stronger than it should do if you provided correct information) nit-picking?
Oh I agree that it's not his fault that he didn't play in the 90s, but he;s had the fortune to play at a time when in general bowling standards are lower.
indiaholic
International Captain
In Jassy's corner. Not because I think Sanga is crap, in fact I feel he is a brilliant batsman and an ATG but not in the Lara, tendulkar, Ponting bracket.
indiaholic
International Captain
And his performance in England on those awful pitches this time round makes me adjust my opinion very little.
Maximas
Cricketer Of The Year
Then you're not really in Jassy's corner from what I've gathered
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
I think my basic problem with Sanga isn't that I think he's an ftb but that he's just not had a career where he's had enough chances to show what he can do overseas. He's had a couple of good series but when compared to what Lara, Sachin, Ponting, Dravid, etc achieved for their countries in overseas conditions, his career just comes off a bit flat by comparison. I think he's great but with so few tests outside Asia I don't know if I'm able to rate him up there with the others. For example, Dravid scored as many hundreds in just England as Sanga's scored outside Asia as a whole.
I know overseas performances aren't everything, I'm one of the first people to admit that home performances shouldn't be brushed aside, but a player's legacy just gets enhanced a great deal when you show your greatness away in alien conditions. Sanga's not had the chance to do that because of the SLCB. Regardless, that's basically why there'll always be a slight bias in my mind against him compared to the other great of the generation.
I know overseas performances aren't everything, I'm one of the first people to admit that home performances shouldn't be brushed aside, but a player's legacy just gets enhanced a great deal when you show your greatness away in alien conditions. Sanga's not had the chance to do that because of the SLCB. Regardless, that's basically why there'll always be a slight bias in my mind against him compared to the other great of the generation.
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Maximas
Cricketer Of The Year
Maximarse, if you will
indiaholic
International Captain
Okay, I am in OS' corner. But I do feel he is very overrated. I think the elegance with which he bats and the eloquence with which he talks about the game make you want him to be better than he is.
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