***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Beamer]

My T20 series thoughts:

- 1-1 is fair and I'm glad we won convincingly today after being completely screwed over by conditions yesterday.

- Is it me or did NZ win every toss on tour? Like, literally every toss. Outrageously poor performance from Ramdin and Sammy, must do better

- I don't think either Kane or Darren Bravo should be playing international T20. Both have their moments and clearly can play a good innings but more often than not they don't score quickly enough and get out playing outside their range of shots. They belong in Tests and ODI's.

- It was good to see Andre Fletcher get a game and do well. He has steadily improved his technique and scored very well on A team tours recently. I'm not convinced he has the technique for Test cricket but he's earned an extended go at T20 and probably ODI's too.

- Sheldon Cotterell has the tools to be good and it was nice to see a bower getting up to 147 kph as that is one of the only things that has been missing from this tour. He just needs to bowl more consistently and pitch it up more with the new ball to make it at Test level. He's a promising guy to have around the setup though.

 

[hendrix]

- Sheldon Cotterell has the tools to be good and it was nice to see a bower getting up to 147 kph as that is one of the only things that has been missing from this tour. He just needs to bowl more consistently and pitch it up more with the new ball to make it at Test level. He's a promising guy to have around the setup though.

Unlike the last few times I've seen him play, his seam position was actually rather good this time around. The ball wasn't swinging in this match (it wasn't for Southee or Boult either), but if he can get that ball swinging in conducive conditions he's an excellent addition to your attack.

 

[Beamer]

He does swing the new ball in domestic cricket, it's just that he is obsessed with bowling short because he's got pace. He is getting better and hopefully he'll improve some more with more work.

 

[SteveNZ]

Don't know about you mate, but the last thing I was doing as an opening bowler was throwing myself around that nimbly in the field... guess I came up in the old school of practice where I was expected to bowl my four to six overs, take a couple of catches, have a hit in the nets and go home. These guys put as much time into fielding as they do their other skills.

Boult definitely leapt from outside the boundary rope back into play. Usually you see guys make a conscious effort to ground themselves before taking the catch. Knowing cricket, the letter of the law will be much too vague and open to subjectiveness on this type of thing.

Gee I dunno, I always thought of myself as an athlete. Or a 2nd slipper that didn't catch much but earned a spot on seniority/conversation.

Yeah, that's my issue - I can't for the life of me see how that constitutes a catch. Didn't a Sri Lankan (forget who) take one absolutely identically in a T20 World Cup or some such a couple of years ago and have it ruled out?

Has WW called conspiracy on it yet?

 

[Flem274*]

how long do we wait before worrying for WWs health? Not like him to miss so many chances to post about his beloved team.

 

[Flem274*]

Didn't see a ball of either T20 but good to see an even contest. I thought Narine might hit h4x mode.

 

[Prince EWS]

Considering the conditions the match was played in and the batsman he got to bowl to? Only Anderson and Sodhi went at more than he did. He didn't bowl particularly well, got Simmons cheap and got a late wicket. If you watched him bowl, he didn't bowl great.

I agree, but to say it was a "bad performance" is definitely over-critical. It was neither good nor bad.

 

[Spark]

Gee I dunno, I always thought of myself as an athlete. Or a 2nd slipper that didn't catch much but earned a spot on seniority/conversation.

Yeah, that's my issue - I can't for the life of me see how that constitutes a catch. Didn't a Sri Lankan (forget who) take one absolutely identically in a T20 World Cup or some such a couple of years ago and have it ruled out?

Has WW called conspiracy on it yet?

19.4. Ball beyond the boundary

After it has crossed the boundary in the air, a ball may be caught, subject to the provisions of Law 32, or fielded provided that

(i) the first contact with the ball is by a fielder, not touching or grounded beyond the boundary, who has some part of his person grounded within the boundary or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was entirely within the boundary.

Any fielder subsequently touching the ball is not subject to this restriction.

(ii) neither the ball, nor any fielder in contact with the ball touches, or is grounded beyond, the boundary at any time during the act of making the catch or of fielding the ball.

The act of making the catch, or of fielding the ball, shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with some part of a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control both over the ball and over his own movement.

Changed last year. The catch is fine.

 

[SteveNZ]

Okay, that clears it up - so if the first touch is within the field of play, he can leap from outside. I'm okay with that, and appreciate the info.

My next issue is that both Boult and Anderson are fine athletes, great swing bowlers and top fielders...but can't bat to save themselves.

 

[Blocky]

Okay, that clears it up - so if the first touch is within the field of play, he can leap from outside. I'm okay with that, and appreciate the info.

My next issue is that both Boult and Anderson are fine athletes, great swing bowlers and top fielders...but can't bat to save themselves.

I think in Anderson's case, he struggles to pick the ball up early enough to make the right options. I've seen a tonne of players with that problem who will never really cut it as batsmen once the ball starts going over 130KM. Simon Doull was someone who had problems picking up the ball at pace, could be relied on in club cricket to be quite a good bat.

Boult seems to have alright hand-eye co-ordination but a psychological fear of the ball, not as bad as Jeets but he certainly backs away first as his movement.

The reality is, batting and bowling are two completely different sports in my view. It's why world class all rounders are so few and far between - I was able to train myself into being a competent opening batsman at club and a more than decent middle to lower order all rounder at representative level but that was all on the basis of limitation - I had to remove shot options at each level, use a lighter bat at representative level and a much lower back-lift. Initially, anyone up around 135kmh plus was a challenge for me to see out of the hand and once they got up around Andrew Mathieson or Te Ahu Davis pace, I wasn't seeing it at all. Fortunately I never had any fear of being hit by the ball and over time, I started getting better at seeing the line of those bowlers and playing accordingly, but I always struggled to pick up length for "rapid" pace bowlers.

It's hard to teach someone how to face ultra fast bowling, if they don't have some level of natural aptitude for picking up the ball from an early age. The kids I've coached we've tried to get facing bowlers a few age grades above so they can start to get used to the pace they'll face, but even in the case of guys like Sam McLeod - he was facing 16 yr olds at the age of 12 quite comfortably but could never get himself right against the 18-21 yr olds who bowled 135kmh plus.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think in Anderson's case, he struggles to pick the ball up early enough to make the right options. I've seen a tonne of players with that problem who will never really cut it as batsmen once the ball starts going over 130KM. Simon Doull was someone who had problems picking up the ball at pace, could be relied on in club cricket to be quite a good bat.

Yeah Anderson actually bats really high on the odd occasion he plays club cricket too.

 

[Blocky]

Yeah Anderson actually bats really high on the odd occasion he plays club cricket too.

Not surprising. Even Danny Morrison managed to bat relatively high at club level after his career ended. He was probably one of the most improved batsmen over the course of a career - went from absolute bunny to a guy who could at least hold up an end.

Similar with pace bowling or even generating spin on a ball - I can take most guys who bowl 130kmh and give them tools to get themselves an additional 3-5kmh of pace by the radar gun over a season but getting them to go beyond that is very hard, tend to spend more time working on delivery stride and ball release to get better bounce/zip off the wicket and better seam position. It surprises me to this day that someone like Iain O'Brien went from medium pace 125kmh trundler to a guy who could legitimately hit 145kmh on his day. Generally pace is a naturally talent that you have and that can be honed, not something you can just get someone doing.

 

[SteveNZ]

It's an interesting one...Anderson is a great slipper, which can make you look quite silly/black-eyed if you don't pick it up early. But when it comes out of a bowler's hand - where you know it's coming/where it's coming from (unlike slipping) - it *should* be easier. But clearly not for him.

And yeah, that does seem to be Trent's first movement - as with Tim to a point too. I'm sure I've said this before but Trent scored 400-odd runs in a national one-day tournament, so he can play.

A documentary worth watching/tracking down is one by Adam Zwan on Bodyline. Really interesting insight, not just with the Bodyline stuff but how batsmen pick up on body cues to determine length/line, and the science behind it.

The basic premise is it doesn't matter how good your eye is, you need to be sub-consciously dialled in - in terms of the body cues of your sport. Ie Roger Federer can return a 220km serve but bowl a 140km yorker and he's cleaned up 10 times out of 10.

I've totally derailed this topic, but it's the end of the series so I'll run with it.

 

[hendrix]

TBH, to me the whole team looks suspect against 140kph+ fast bowling. Williamson, Watling, Taylor all seem to come undone against that type of bowling.

McCullum is probably the one I'd be most confident to be able to deal with that stuff. And Jesse Ryder.

 

[Blocky]

The difference from standing in the batting crease to being at slip is about 10-12 metres which gives you a lot more time to pick the ball up - also I'd say catching a ball requires a lot less muscle memory and thought to get yourself into the right kind of position - as important as footwork and hand position is in the slips, it's no where near as important as getting everything flowing when you're batting.

Watching guys like Jed Jones and Martin Crowe rock up to the nets having not held a bat in five to six years in order to get themselves ready for whatever charity match is going on and seeing how instantly they get things working again, there is definitely something subconscious operating that these guys have that most of the population don't. Watching Jones come and bat with two feet in the air while defending the ball technique, late cutting our fastest bowlers off middle stump having not held a bat in ages was just impressive.

I read Outliers by Gladwell as well as Thinking Negatively by Richardson - both of whom look at creating practice situations and repetition to grow skills you may not have had and put it to work in my own batting but the only thing I was ever able to get better at was controlling what shots I'd put away. It took me from a 15-25 average per season in club to four seasons in a row averaging over 40. I also worked out how many balls a week I needed to hit to keep my own eye sharp enough to be able to play as an opening bat at club. I worked on the idea that I needed to face 500 balls a week. If I faced 100 in match conditions during the week, I'd hit 400 in practice conditions. That helped my consistency no end too.

 

[Blocky]

TBH, to me the whole team looks suspect against 140kph+ fast bowling. Williamson, Watling, Taylor all seem to come undone against that type of bowling.

McCullum is probably the one I'd be most confident to be able to deal with that stuff. And Jesse Ryder.

Williamson plays inside out, which is a deficiency that means pace bowling will always rattle him. I've seen Watling stand up to quickies before with no issues - his series against South Africa in South Africa when Steyn and co were charging in was impressive.

Baz can get rattled against pace, I think it is definitely a mindset for him though. The main issue most of NZ has with him is that he finds the most daftest ways ( as does Taylor ) to get himself out, rather than being worked over and taken out by bowlers.

Ryder is a rare breed of a guy who picks up the ball excessively early and plays it excessively late. Again, if he had a better mindset and mental application then I think he'd be our first 50+ player.

 

[Spark]

Let's be honest, though, how many batsmen in the world look genuinely comfortable against express pace? Almost everyone is at a bare minimum troubled by simple sheer pace (assuming that it's reasonably well directed), and the only exception I can think of that immediately comes to mind is ABdV.

 

[Blocky]

Let's be honest, though, how many batsmen in the world look genuinely comfortable against express pace? Almost everyone is at a bare minimum troubled by simple sheer pace (assuming that it's reasonably well directed), and the only exception I can think of that immediately comes to mind is ABdV.

The difference is we're talking about the NZ guys being rattled by 145KMH - which a lot of guys come to mind as being capable against.

As for guys capable of handling the 155-160kmh extreme edge of pace.

Ricky Ponting for anyone not named Shane Bond was pretty good and comfortable at that pace, Adam Gilchrist and Matty Hayden are two more that I recall being pretty comfortable against extreme pace too.

 

[hendrix]

Let's be honest, though, how many batsmen in the world look genuinely comfortable against express pace? Almost everyone is at a bare minimum troubled by simple sheer pace (assuming that it's reasonably well directed), and the only exception I can think of that immediately comes to mind is ABdV.

that I can think of:

Kohli
Sangakkara
Warner

but yeah, it's a good point.

 

[SteveNZ]

Changed last year. The catch is fine.

Clearly I don't work hard enough because I'm still not certain about this.

9.4. Ball beyond the boundary

After it has crossed the boundary in the air, a ball may be caught, subject to the provisions of Law 32, or fielded provided that

(i) the first contact with the ball is by a fielder, not touching or grounded beyond the boundary, who has some part of his person grounded within the boundary or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was entirely within the boundary.

Any fielder subsequently touching the ball is not subject to this restriction.

(ii) neither the ball, nor any fielder in contact with the ball touches, or is grounded beyond, the boundary at any time during the act of making the catch or of fielding the ball.

The act of making the catch, or of fielding the ball, shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with some part of a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control both over the ball and over his own movement.

To me, the bolded part is vague. So is this final contact with the ground before touching the ball the initial touch, or the final touch when catching it? Because Boult's final contact with the ground before touching the ball - if we presume the last time he touches it - is entirely outside the boundary.