***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Blocky]

Jimmy as an opening batsman? I wouldn't mind this if he was given a decent crack in domestic cricket and sponsored into a county cricket contract as an opening batsman too.

 

[Blocky]

To be honest, that's where NZ has missed a trick while nations like Australia have traditionally been good - getting their most talented six batsmen out on the field at any point in time.

 

[Kippax]

I think you're doing yourself an injustice here.

The phrase "agribusiness" captures a fair bit more than that.

It's the attention that the Agriculture sector gets from the Government in the way that it's prepared to bend over backwards to provide for a sector that while yes, is very important to the economy, should not have other, more innovative and long term solutions shelved in sacrifice. Milk exports might be NZ's major industry now but that doesn't mean we should for example artificially devalue our dollar so that other industries have a hard time. Nor does it mean that farmers should be exempt from carbon tax etc etc. As soon as the world realises that milk is a luxury product, our economy will be screwed.

Similarly, the Black Caps may have had our greatest success with the classic dibble-dobbly seamers and a plethora of bit-part all rounders, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore truly class batsmen and fast bowlers and adopt slow low pitches for a temporary shot at a world cup. As soon as the world realises that those dibbly cobblers should be smashed out of the park, the team will be screwed.

Yeah, there's definitely short-termist connotations to the phrase, you're right. "She's no Miss Right, but she's Miss Right Now".

"Realistically it lacks sense to try to reshape these crude raw materials like Devcich and Sodhi. Look at how Jacob Duffy has regressed down in Otago, with the attempts to tweak his action into something genuinely good. I'll try to get my boys into the Black Caps, like putting logs onto a ship, to be turned into furniture overseas. I'll then send my bolstered CV to Cricket Scotland".

 

[Blocky]

So since Bradburn was involved in coaching at ND...

Kane Williamson, Corey Anderson, Trent Boult, Tim Southee, BJ Watling have all debuted and performed in the NZ Cricket squad. In the case of Anderson, he went from being a bits and pieces player in Canterbury into an all rounder seen as world class in the limited overs formats (based on contract valuation). In the case of Southee and Watling, both came out of the NZ side and returned to it some time later as improved players having done most of that back at ND.

While he also has his Sodhi's, Devcich, Flynn's, Arnel's and co - his above track record involves five of our recent top performers at international level being molded under his coaching structures. And at the same time, I see your Devcich and raise you a Rob Nicol, I see your Sodhi and raise you a Tarun Nethula, I see your Flynn and raise you a Rutherford, I see your Arnel and raise you a Gillespie.

 

[Athlai]

Kane, Corey, Trent and Tim have all been our most talented future crop for about 5 years. If anything we should be talking up the youth selectors and coaches of ND (and Canterbury).

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Did Bradburn coach some of those guys at U-19 level?

 

[SteveNZ]

So since Bradburn was involved in coaching at ND...

Kane Williamson, Corey Anderson, Trent Boult, Tim Southee, BJ Watling have all debuted and performed in the NZ Cricket squad. In the case of Anderson, he went from being a bits and pieces player in Canterbury into an all rounder seen as world class in the limited overs formats (based on contract valuation). In the case of Southee and Watling, both came out of the NZ side and returned to it some time later as improved players having done most of that back at ND.

While he also has his Sodhi's, Devcich, Flynn's, Arnel's and co - his above track record involves five of our recent top performers at international level being molded under his coaching structures. And at the same time, I see your Devcich and raise you a Rob Nicol, I see your Sodhi and raise you a Tarun Nethula, I see your Flynn and raise you a Rutherford, I see your Arnel and raise you a Gillespie.

I won't buy for a second that Southee did most of his improving at ND. Shane Bond and Chris Donaldson are your go-to guys there, with the possibility of Damien Wright at the back-end of his tenure. I would suggest Donaldson can take a hell of a lot of the raps, not only for improved fitness but also developing his run-up from the shambles it was in 2012 to now.

Do our domestic coaches really have the time to get their hands on the guys you've mentioned in the first par? I doubt it. If Bradburn did a lot of that work in the A environment, then fair enough.

 

[Bahnz]

In the case of Anderson, he went from being a bits and pieces player in Canterbury into an all rounder seen as world class in the limited overs formats (based on contract valuation).

Corey Anderson was not a bits and pieces player during his Canterbury days. Yes, his record from his time in the red and black isn't all that flash, but that's because he made his first class debut at 16, and broke down with a horrible run of injuries just as he reached physical maturity. He was starting to produce some very exciting performances for Canterbury in his final season before injuries started to become a problem (when he was 19 iirc), and I remember that there were murmers about a possible T20 call-up against Bangladesh at the time. Yes he improved further after he moved to ND, and I'm sure the very strong team culture they have up there played a part in that. But a talented age-group player getting better between the age of 19 and 22 is not surprising, and I see Anderson's progress as being more related to his physical maturation, and the absence of the shoulder and groin injuries that bedevilled the first 5 years of his career.

 

[hendrix]

I won't buy for a second that Southee did most of his improving at ND. Shane Bond and Chris Donaldson are your go-to guys there, with the possibility of Damien Wright at the back-end of his tenure.

You're forgetting Allan Donald.

 

[Kippax]

So since Bradburn was involved in coaching at ND...

Kane Williamson, Corey Anderson, Trent Boult, Tim Southee, BJ Watling have all debuted and performed in the NZ Cricket squad. In the case of Anderson, he went from being a bits and pieces player in Canterbury into an all rounder seen as world class in the limited overs formats (based on contract valuation). In the case of Southee and Watling, both came out of the NZ side and returned to it some time later as improved players having done most of that back at ND.

While he also has his Sodhi's, Devcich, Flynn's, Arnel's and co - his above track record involves five of our recent top performers at international level being molded under his coaching structures. And at the same time, I see your Devcich and raise you a Rob Nicol, I see your Sodhi and raise you a Tarun Nethula, I see your Flynn and raise you a Rutherford, I see your Arnel and raise you a Gillespie.

Haha, you only need to search for video of the 2008 U19 World Cup semi to see how good Anderson's raw materials were. Neesham was also on this forum to vouch for Corey's see-hit ballstriking. He was never destined to be a bits-and-pieces player for New Zealand at all.

I'd agree Bradburn's methods didn't prevent good players from coming through the system. I just don't rate his lax filtering of filth, his discretion.

 

[hendrix]

It's fair to say that we don't actually know what goes on behind the scenes here. It's also fair to say that there is more than one person behind selection decisions, from age-grade through to club, domestic and international level.

 

[Bahnz]

Donald only worked with Southee for - what? - 3 or 4 months? And Southee showed little improvement in the longer form before and after Donald's appointment. The only impact that I think Donald might have had on Southee was aspirational - those comments of his about Southee becoming the best swing bowler in the world may well have really inspired him to become the bowler he is now. They certainly look remarkably prescient given Southee's test record at the time.

 

[Howsie]

Corey Anderson was not a bits and pieces player during his Canterbury days. Yes, his record from his time in the red and black isn't all that flash, but that's because he made his first class debut at 16, and broke down with a horrible run of injuries just as he reached physical maturity. He was starting to produce some very exciting performances for Canterbury in his final season before injuries started to become a problem (when he was 19 iirc), and I remember that there were murmers about a possible T20 call-up against Bangladesh at the time. Yes he improved further after he moved to ND, and I'm sure the very strong team culture they have up there played a part in that. But a talented age-group player getting better between the age of 19 and 22 is not surprising, and I see Anderson's progress as being more related to his physical maturation, and the absence of the shoulder and groin injuries that bedevilled the first 5 years of his career.

Yep. ND and Bradburn deserve a lot of credit for getting Anderson fit, he shed over 20kg's when he got here. But he was always one of the most talented guys around the scene.

 

[hendrix]

Donald only worked with Southee for - what? - 3 or 4 months? And Southee showed little improvement in the longer form before and after Donald's appointment. The only impact that I think Donald might have had on Southee was aspirational - those comments of his about Southee becoming the best swing bowler in the world may well have really inspired him to become the bowler he is now. They certainly look remarkably prescient given Southee's test record at the time.

I honestly think that that's all that Southee needed. He still pretty much has the same tools he did as an 18yo. He just seems to want it more. He's gained control and bowling intelligence, but it's the professionalism that's striking.

 

[Blocky]

I won't buy for a second that Southee did most of his improving at ND. Shane Bond and Chris Donaldson are your go-to guys there, with the possibility of Damien Wright at the back-end of his tenure. I would suggest Donaldson can take a hell of a lot of the raps, not only for improved fitness but also developing his run-up from the shambles it was in 2012 to now.

Do our domestic coaches really have the time to get their hands on the guys you've mentioned in the first par? I doubt it. If Bradburn did a lot of that work in the A environment, then fair enough.

Then you should also know that Donaldson was actually suggested to NZ Cricket by Bradburn who had used him in a couple of preseason training camps for his guys. And the credit that Shane Bond gets for Southee makes me laugh, because realistically Southee's main improvement came under the short time he spent with Allan Donald and the work that he went back to ND and did with Grant Bradburn and Brent Arnel (Who in about five years, will be seen as one of our best bowling coaches in the country)

Bond gets a tonne of credit where I don't think he's really valid... I mean, look at the guys he had working with him at youth level in Milne, Mathieson (who bowls slower and more erratic now than he did while working at ND) and Bracewell. His best work seems to have been with Wagner and even then, that's assumed, rather than known reality.

As for revising the history of Anderson - he was constantly injured, never really made an impact in the first class format and although the talent was there, he was as likely to become a Harry Boam individual as he has become a competent international player. He moved to ND to revitalise his career and it worked.

 

[Bahnz]

I honestly think that that's all that Southee needed. He still pretty much has the same tools he did as an 18yo. He just seems to want it more. He's gained control and bowling intelligence, but it's the professionalism that's striking.

Yeah, having a genuine ATG making public statements about you like that must really help with your self-confidence. It certainly would've made a refreshing change from hearing all the dicks like Mark Richardson saying that he was too slow to be a star in test cricket.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that Southee's last series as a carp bowler was against SA. I remember reading somewhere that Donald had a chat with Southee about his bowling at the time.

 

[Blocky]

I'd agree Bradburn's methods didn't prevent good players from coming through the system. I just don't rate his lax filtering of filth, his discretion.

The only complaint I have about Bradburn is that he allowed pet projects like Sodhi to take up contract positions of guys who were probably more talented than him and that despite the success of Boult and Southee. He actually ripped up Devcich's contract a couple of times, Andy Moles was a big Devcich fan because believe it or not, Devcich is actually a very technically competent batsman who looks a million dollars in practice. Moles coming from the county scene where players like that are tolerated and slowly transformed felt he had a lot of future potential - Bradburn often left Devcich on the bench in all formats, until Devcich started performing a role for the limited overs sides.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, it's just best to say we have absolutely no idea unless we've seen behind the curtain.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Summary of Bradburns Coaching career:

Joey Yovich.
James Marshall.

That is all

 

[jcas0167]

Summary of Bradburns Coaching career:

Joey Yovich.
James Marshall.

That is all

Bradburn on Moneyball selection approach.

Northern districts coach Grant Bradburn has cited a core of senior players, earning the right to play shots and an appreciation of Moneyball selection principles as reasons his team won the Plunket Shield for the second time in three years.

I can't find the exact article but I recall reading when Southee was axed from the test side in 2012 he and Bradburn met for pizza and watched videos of him bowling when he got into the test side.

"We'll be taking Tim back to the times where he has bowled well for us and just opening his eyes to remembering those key things that he does," Bradburn said. "There are three or four key things that all key players do when they are playing well. In our environment, we're really big on analysing more so when they are playing well than when they are not playing well. Too many top-class sportsmen over analyse things when they are not going good, instead of understanding why they perform well and what makes them tick at that level. Those are things we like to highlight for them."


Southee could also get some tough love from his Northern Districts team-mates and the management, something Bradburn believes may do the trick. "Tim will be knocked down into shape," Bradburn said. "He will probably get the worst job in the team. He'll be on rubbish duty, which is housekeeping, or he'll be on the pooch, which is carrying the computer bag around, so he'll get the worst job. When he comes back into our environment, he just gets treated like everyone else. He doesn't get any special treatment. The guys will bring him down to earth and put him in his place."

New Zealand Cricket News: New Zealand news: Tim Southee to play Plunket Shield to try and rediscover form | ESPN Cricinfo