***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Hurricane]

Tastle would be even better at inflicting Plunket Shield Cute Little Tail Wags on the oppo than Craig come to think of it.

Or we could just pick a medium pace allrounder like Ellis, CdG or KNB for the "bowl lots of overs" role and get even more silliness down at number eight. Ellis would be perfect for this because his bowling fits right in with the 15.999999 degree brigade, so people wouldn't see much difference between his deliveries and the quicker balls of several test spinners.

I've always struggled with the concept of play your best 4 bowlers regardless of their batting ability. It just seems like the "4th bowler" never pulls his weight with the ball anyway so we might as well take batting skill into account for that final bowling spot. I guess this test match directly tests out my theory as Craig probably got the nod due to his batting. So far he has helped add another 100 runs to our score but only taken 1 wicket.

 

[hendrix]

I really don't rate Sodhi but he definitely has more to work with than Craig has shown in the last two tests. Is there really no-one outside of Jeets who is better than these two?

Nope.

Jeets would have done well on this tour. So gutted.

 

[GGG]

Yeah, I never thought I would say it but I miss Jeets.

 

[Hurricane]

Nope.

Jeets would have done well on this tour. So gutted.

Now I feel mad at Jeets

 

[Athlai]

Jeets gotta do what Jeets gotta do.

 

[Hurricane]

...

 

[Days of Grace]

All this talk about the Windies having a long tail but it won't make much difference if they're 400 when the 5th wicket falls.

It's also scary that we're only halfway through this current ball.

 

[Mike5181]

Williamson's bowling action getting reported doesn't exactly help either. It's too early to have Craig down as a write-off though. I'm happy giving him a few more tests to see what he's got. Realistically if he doesn't work, whether you believe in his abilities or not, we can only hope Sodhi progresses to a level we can consider test standard in the near future.

I hope the weather is all right for the rest of this test. If we can't turn this around, I'd rather we lose than end up with an undeserved draw. They've completely outplayed us since the start of the second test.

 

[Flem274*]

I agree but weather is weather. It's robbed us before so it if saves us then fine but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

I'm pretty sure a Pakistani thanked God/Allah in the media a few years back when rain rescued them from defending a modest total in our part of the world. I remember the tour thread making heaps of jokes about it. If my memory isn't playing tricks on me then that was the best draw speech ever.

 

[Athlai]

Williamson's bowling action getting reported doesn't exactly help either. It's too early to have Craig down as a write-off though. I'm happy giving him a few more tests to see what he's got. Realistically if he doesn't work, whether you believe in his abilities or not, we can only hope Sodhi progresses to a level we can consider test standard in the near future.

I hope the weather is all right for the rest of this test. If we can't turn this around, I'd rather we lose than end up with an undeserved draw. They've completely outplayed us since the start of the second test.

Yip the holes in our side have definitely been exposed. Baz despite his glorious Indian series is still a fairly on and off batsman. Beyond Taylor and Kane we don't have a proper world class Test batsman.

Neesham and Watling are definitely quality but they're never going to be the greatest in the world. Our openers remain a worry, our attack remains swinging condition reliant to be able to truly knock anyone over and our spin spot burns a hole in the team lineup.

WI have just as much quality in their batting lineup and a better spinner.

I suspect we'd win more often than not against them in conditions that don't truly favor spin but you can't hold onto that when thats clearly their home conditions now and they play a lot better than us in them.

I don't think we're out of this yet at all but as soon as Roach woke up in the second Test we've been a step behind.

 

[Mike5181]

Yip the holes in our side have definitely been exposed. Baz despite his glorious Indian series is still a fairly on and off batsman.
.

It's not often I agree with Mark Watson, but McCullum's lack of preparation for this series has really hurt us so far. There's no guarantee he would have performed for us as his away record isn't the greatest, and as you say he's an on and off batsman. However, he barely gave himself a chance. If your preparation is terrible you can't just expect your on-field performances to return to the way they were five months ago.

 

[Flem274*]

I just think he's terrible away from home for whatever reason. What has he done as a specialist batsman away from home since his double? He's just not a banker in foreign conditions imo. As soon as he comes home for the summer he'll probably ton up.

And Athlai you can wash your mouth out about Watling. He's one AB injury away from me annoying everyone with the WPWP tag.

 

[Flem274*]

As soon as I say this the team will probably try to prove me wrong but even if we go down this series still has some positives - namely Latham and Neesham's smooth transitions into test cricket. I think it's jumping the gun to say the attack relies on swing too. Boult certainly does but Southee bowling properly has shown he can get guys out the old fashioned way in India and during periods in home tests where the swing has worn off.

 

[Hurricane]

I still think this is the strongest NZ side I have seen in the last 5 years.

Only side that competes was that attack of Bond, o'brien, Martin, Vettori that were together for one test.

 

[Flem274*]

It doesn't compete imo because even though Bond and co. bowling to this lot would see some low scores, can you imagine what Southee and Boult would do to the batting line up from that test? Those were the days where if Taylor and Vettori didn't put together a big partnership we were 150 all out (Ryder didn't play that test iirc).

 

[Days of Grace]

I'd to see this lot play the 2002/03 side that played India at home.

Or the 2003/04 side that played South Africa.

Then again, the 2001/02 New Zealand side that played in Perth.

It would be a good contest.

 

[Beamer]

WI have just as much quality in their batting lineup and a better spinner.

I suspect we'd win more often than not against them in conditions that don't truly favor spin but you can't hold onto that when thats clearly their home conditions now and they play a lot better than us in them.

I don't think we're out of this yet at all but as soon as Roach woke up in the second Test we've been a step behind.

If what you all say about Craig and Sodhi is true, I think we have about 6 spinners that are better than anything you guys have outside of Jeets tbh (Narine, Benn, Shilly, Bishoo, Miller, Nurse). We actually have more depth in spin than any other area of our cricket which says a lot about our pitches.

I can see why Blocky was bigging up your side, I reckon it's the strongest overall NZ side we've faced in the last 10 years. You've got an absolutely World class opening bowling attack, a decent middle order including a very good player in his prime (Ross) and a potentially very good player in Kane.a World class keeper batsman and a plethora of decent all rounders (or potentially decent anyway) in Neesham and Anderson. Latham also looks like he could be a solid opener too.

To make the next step and comprehensively beat sides like us in our own conditions you need to find:

- An opening partner for Latham that can at least hold a bat and resemble a test opener
- A World Class spinner
- A better 3rd seamer than Wagner. Ideally they would have lots of pace (Milne?) or offer something completely different like extra bounce (see Holder for us in this match).

I'm actually pretty pleased with how the West Indies side is coming along tbh, even if we are still having the odd selection blunder and batting collapse still. I agree you'd probably beat us on most occasions in swinging conditions, but if our batting line up develops a little more that might not be the case in a year or so as Roach and Taylor are class bowlers themselves and can swing the ball with the best of them (see Latham's last dismissal).

If Blackwood develops as we all expect him too we will have a pretty awesome middle order. Kraigg looks like he could be here to stay at the top of the order to help us put runs on the board for our attack to play with. We will have to replace Gayle at some point soon no doubt and that will be a big hurdle. We also need an all-rounder to balance the side out at 6 (Dwayne Bravo would be good in that role).

Regardless of what happens now I've seen plenty of positives in this series for both sides.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah I'd sell my left nut for any of those spinners you mentioned.

 

[Hurricane]

It doesn't compete imo because even though Bond and co. bowling to this lot would see some low scores, can you imagine what Southee and Boult would do to the batting line up from that test? Those were the days where if Taylor and Vettori didn't put together a big partnership we were 150 all out (Ryder didn't play that test iirc).

Agreed - this is a good side.

And I think realistically this team is about as good as I can hope they will ever be in the next 10 years. We are just lucky even to be relatively injury free. I am not aware of any other childhood prodigies coming through the ranks. Siefert will not be a great test player.

I am not hopeful Sodhi will develop accuracy. His best bet is to work on a flipper instead of a googly it is a harder delivery to face.

I don't believe that Flynn or Brownlie will pan out as openers. Likewise Guptil. Ryder is not coming back.

Just like the movie says - this is as good as it gets.

 

[Hurricane]

It was noted that Beamer did not mention Permaul. He would not get a game for us even.