***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Mike5181]

I know you can't compare achievements in the T20 format to test matches, but that McCullum century against Australia was crazy good, too. Some of those ramp shots or whatever you want to call them were off 155 km/h deliveries.

 

[Kippax]

The Narine situation is gonna heat up big time now...there are reports that they'll let him play the third test HERE ..but obviously that would be complete madness when you consider the next match is on his own turf and we're one down.

Yeah I noticed this though WW -

https://guardian.co.tt/sport/2014-06-11/smith-pollard-headline-single-wicket-tourney

“Sunil Narine, who played with us last year had to undergo an X-Ray yesterday (Monday), he has an injury to a finger.”

 

[Prince EWS]

Regarding the innings ratings, I'm thinking that I'm placing too much emphasis on the match result. Astle's innings would be rated the greatest of alltime (for any nation) if NZ had won by 1 wicket.

I've always thought this. Innings should definitely be penalised if they match is already a dead cause at the time, but there shouldn't really be any difference between a close loss and a win IMO because that comes down much more to the other 21 players than the innings in question.

 

[Teja.]

I've always thought this. Innings should definitely be penalised if they match is already a dead cause at the time, but there shouldn't really be any difference between a close loss and a win IMO because that comes down much more to the other 21 players than the innings in question.

I disagree in the case of 4th innings chases. A 4th innings chase where the batsman plays an epic knock and gets the win should be held in higher regard than just being short, IMO.

 

[Days of Grace]

I disagree in the case of 4th innings chases. A 4th innings chase where the batsman plays an epic knock and gets the win should be held in higher regard than just being short, IMO.

Yes, big 4th innings chases are basically the only situation where you can say without question that the batsmen won the match.

 

[Kippax]

What do you think of Dwayne Bravo for Samuels' slot?

Sorry Dwayne, when I think of an Ottis Gibson player I think of Brathwaite or Edwards. When I think of you, I think of Brian Lara's house and a bevy of twerking hoes. Just keep Darren out of there.

 

[hendrix]

Watling the only New Zealand wicketkeeper to take eight catches or more in three Tests.

WAG.

 

[hendrix]

Sorry Dwayne, when I think of an Ottis Gibson player I think of Brathwaite or Edwards. When I think of you, I think of Brian Lara's house and a bevy of twerking hoes. Just keep Darren out of there.

He made a horrible music video.

It doesn't mean anything.

 

[Frost]

Wats speeds was neesham bowling at.Only time iv seen him bowl he was hitting 140, impressive when you put that together with his batting ability.
If he or Anderson improve there bowling nz mite be able to always play two spinners or play both allrounders.Has vettori retired from test?

 

[BharathSeervi]

Is there a bowler whose first delivery in Tests was hit for six?

Yes. Sohag Gazi is one. He conceded six off his first ball, which was also first ball of the test to Chris Gayle. Hence Gayle became the only player to hit a six off the first ball of a Test match.

 

[RxGM]

Watling the only New Zealand wicketkeeper to take eight catches or more in three Tests.

WAG.

Mykael at cricket geek did quite a details stats analysis of Watling and Southee + Bout

Some stats after the first test in Jamaica
BJ Watling

BJ Watling has taken 5 dismissals again. He's now joined Parore and McCullum as the only New Zealanders to have taken 5 dismissals in an innings 4 times. Ian Smith only did it 3 times.

He also leads the way in terms of 8 dismissals in a match. He's done it 3 times now, there have only been 3 other times a kiwi has done it, Once each for Smith, Lees and McCullum. He's 5th overall for that, behind Boucher, Gilchrist, Healy and Marsh. (But they all had much longer careers)

He's taken 2.296 dismissals per innings. Nobody who has kept for more than 3 matches has managed that.

He also leads the way for NZ with the bat, averaging 47.25 when he is keeping. The next best is McCullum at 34.18, followed by Blain at 32.30, Parore at 26.94 and Smith at 25.56.

Globally he's 4th of all time, behind AB de Villiers (56.96) Andy Flower (53.70) and Adam Gilchrist (only 0.35 ahead on 47.60). The guy that has traditionally been considered the best ever is Ames, in 5th. He averaged 43.40.

NZ under McCullum

New Zealand have won 4 and lost 4 under McCullum. There have not been many New Zealand captains who had a winning record. Only Fleming, Coney and Howarth have winning records, and Fleming and Coney only by one match.

Under McCullum, they have averaged a collective 33.70, which is only slightly behind the 33.99 that NZ averaged under Wright, but they were ahead of it before they came out swinging to try and get quick runs in the second innings.

McCullum has led NZ to a score of 400 in 9 out of his 15 matches. Only Steve Waugh has a better % of getting 400s.

To put that in context, New Zealand averaged 26 under Taylor with roughly the same players, despite having played in South Africa and England under McCullum.

Boult - Southee combination

In matches where they have played together, Boult and Southee have a combined average of 24.08. This puts them close to the all time great mark (McGrath Gillespie averaged 23.02 and McGrath - Lee averaged 25.32). They are clear of New Zealand's other very good combinations - Bond & Martin averaged a collective 25.01 and Chatfield & Hadlee averaged 25.39.

Peter Fulton

Fulton has only scored 306 runs in his last 10 tests, at an average of 17. However he has still averaged about 30 since he came back, which is still quite high by NZ standards. Even with these games, and the ones where he came in earlier, he's still New Zealand's 11th highest averaging opener ever, one place ahead of Guptill.

His double hundreds against England were not flukes. He was in very good form at the time. In the 21 innings leading up to them he averaged 52.7 in first class cricket. But in the 31 innings since then he has averaged only 18.7. I think it is possible for the selectors to drop Fulton despite still keeping faith in him. They need to say "you are not in great form, but we know that you are a capable player. Go away and get some runs under your belt and we'll pick you straight away."

 

[Kippax]

Get in a time machine Peter and revisit the pitches of 2012/13, more like.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Well it's looking like Leon Johnson and Jermaine Blackwood have been called up. Most likely replacing Samuels and Powell.


Leon Johnson

26 year old left-hander from Guyana who made his debut for them age just 16 years old. Had a decent start and was seen as a very good talent..eventually he caught the eyes of the WI selectors and made his ODI debut aged 19. But like so many prospects he went through a slump and got dropped...in that period he decided to go to England and play club cricket for three years which he did very successfully. He then made his way back to the Caribbean aged around 23/24 and in these last two years or so he's been a consistent performer. He might only have two tons to his name but he's one of these guys who gets in more often than not and makes 50 or above regularly. His style is a mix of patience and aggression..he average 59 for Guyana last season and has also done very well for the A-team so i'd say this call up is richly deserved.


Jermaine Blackwood

Played in the same WI u19s side as Brathwaite, Holder etc. He;s just turned 22 and he's been the name on most WI fans lips in recent months..his rise to fame has been quite dramatic tbh. Watching him last year he'd come to the crease and a sense of excitement would fill the air...then you'd see him play some outstanding shots all over the ground, legside, off-side, straight, cut etc...but he was so aggressive that he'd often get out to a rash shot before really putting his foot down. But this season he learned how to be much calmer at the crease while still have that aggresive streak to him...and boy has it paid off. He was the leading runs scorer in our 4-day competition this year and has scored three tons in his last three first class matches..all of them have come in quick time too. For me he's the best batting prospect to emerge since Darren Bravo,..we'll have to wait and see how he does, one things for sure if he gets in and gets comfortable he has the ability to really bully the oppositions attack.

The Narine situation is still up in the air...Trinidad guvornment officials are even calling for the board to see sense HERE ..and Anil is absolutely right..don't take the p/ss out of us and try and call him up for the third test!!..that would be stupid beyond belief. Some say Sunny is back while others aren't sure...i guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[BeeGee]

I'm looking forward to seeing Blackwood play.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I'm looking forward to seeing Blackwood play.

Part of me wonders if this has come too early..while another part of me believe's his bravery and arrogence at the crease is exactly what we need...the top order in the last game were just far too timid. Blackwood is the kind of kid that will strike panic into the NZ attack if he gets in a groove...and that's what we need right now.

 

[Beamer]

Sorry about the late post on the conclusion to the first test, I wasn't hiding behind my sofa, honest! Alas work chose a very good time to keep me away

I thought New Zealand played particularly well in Jamaica, they batted with great patience and skill in the 1st innings when the pitch was undoubtedly at it's best. Yes winning the toss was a huge advantage, but they executed perfectly and I'm pretty sure we would have wasted that opportunity had we won the toss and batted so fair play.

Then Southee bowled exceptionally well to make key inroads. His skill levels were unbelievably high. Craig looks like he will be a decent enough test spinner on first viewing, though I must say I was particularly disappointed with our batsmen. They've played very well against much better spinners then him and have been quite rightly lambasted by the coach and the captain.

I'm struggling to think where we go from here as a Test side. That was a much stronger side than that which was selected in India and NZ but we were still hammered. I think the bowling is going to be pretty good with JT, Roach and Shilly, especially when they get more overs under their belts. In hindsight, I might have been a bit harsh on them in the 1st innings when the pitch was very good for batting. As soon as the pitch started to misbehave, they were excellent, particularly JT who was a joy to watch. If they swallow their pride and bring back Narine and consider playing Dwayne Bravo at 6 and as a 3rd seamer, we'll have a pretty decent attack, no complaints there.

The batting however, is clearly in need of some fresh blood. I try not to over-react and most of them have decent records, but the manner of Marlon's dismissals and Powell's recent run of form means they simply have to act. I agree with WW, some of our top order batting was far too timid, we need to transfer some pressure back on to Southee and Boult. If they have called up any of Dwayne Bravo, Leon Johnson or Jermaine Blackwood, that will be a start. The last 2 in particular have earned a shot through excellent FC and A team performances. I would also bite the bullet and replace Powell with Kraigg and give him a long run. He can take the shine off the new ball and play the Chanderpaul style role at the top of the innings.

It will be interesting to see how we fight back in the next test. For the sake of the match attendances, it's important that one of the batsmen does something of note. I think a Blackwood or Johnson 50 or more on debut is just what we need to drum up some enthusiasm.

 

[hendrix]

I'm struggling to think where we go from here as a Test side. That was a much stronger side than that which was selected in India and NZ but we were still hammered.

This is kinda what I was referring to earlier in the thread when I said that it sucks that one of these two teams has to lose.

The point is that big progress in selections has been made. There's genuine improvement on the bowling front, and while the batting was poor, a least the team lineup makes sense. Sometimes the batting can come down to changing one or two things - get a couple of decent partnerships and it makes all the difference.

 

[Blocky]

I've got to believe that Sarwan still remains a better option than some of the players being selected in the Windies batting line up. I also echo the sentiment that Dwayne Bravo should be brought back in to play the role of the all rounder - the other person I'd like to see given more opportunities (potentially after he fills out his frame and puts a couple more yards of pace on) is Jason Holder, who I think will be a better longer term prospect than either Roach or Taylor will be.

But the major issue at the moment just seems to be that everything hinges on Chanderpaul - even Gayle and Bravo are just too inconsistent to help the Windies rise up the ladder. Windies seem to have similar issues to what NZ spent most of the 00s trying to grapple with.

I think NZ are on the cusp of their next golden period in test cricket, we still have a couple of areas of fragility but we've got a seam attack that will compete on an equal footing, Williamson is starting to take on the task of being solid, Taylor is finding more consistency, Watling is a rock in the lower order. Once we end the Sodhi experiment and get some value out of either Neesham or Anderson as a bowler, we're starting to approach what looks like a very strong unit, even if we don't have a spinner capable of keeping an average of around 28-33.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Part of me wonders if this has come too early..while another part of me believe's his bravery and arrogence at the crease is exactly what we need...the top order in the last game were just far too timid. Blackwood is the kind of kid that will strike panic into the NZ attack if he gets in a groove...and that's what we need right now.

And Gayle isn't?

 

[SteveNZ]

Neesham is a better batsman. Anderson is a better bowler.

Anderson isn't a better bowler. Jimmy has almost twice the FC wickets at almost 7 runs a pop less.

Corey is the superior ODI/T20 player, Jimmy is the superior longer-form. There's no place for Corey in the Test side now that Jimmy is in the runs.