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***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
And cheer up any Windies fans reading a tour thread changed to an NZ all time great comparison thread.

Like England '99 and Australia 85/86. Our all time greats tend to mean our 'victims' will be rated their absolute nadir. Some good company who bounced back within a few years of NZ showing them how low they had descended ......
 

Flem274*

123/5
Will be good when we're number one and get to feast on the tasty tears proclaiming the death of test cricket, a catastrophic drop in player quality etc :ph34r:
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
On paper; the 85/86 3rd test in Perth,

Wright
Edgar
Reid
Crowe
Crowe
Coney
Hadlee
Smith
Bracewell
Cairns
Chatfield.

Also the 1983 World Cup team, although they had a rubbish tournament, on paper had a fantastic team with both Glenn Turner and Martin Crowe plus Howarth and the rest of the early 80s guys. The cricketing equivalent of Scotland '78.
God damn it I was trying to find that lineup! I was looking at the team from the first match in Brisbane and was thinking to myself how much I'd like to see Lance Cairns and Bracewell in that set up.

Thats the golden lineup IMO. Our current team isn't as strong as that one but it might get there.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Tbf, Lance was a shadow of the player that he had been in the early 80's by that point. He never really recovered from the bouncer that he copped from an 18 year old Wasim a year earlier.
 

Frost

U19 Debutant
Enyone know wat the next pitch is like.Team selection will be interesting, kinda feel sorry for Anderson its gunna be hard to get his spot back.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Tbf, Lance was a shadow of the player that he had been in the early 80's by that point. He never really recovered from the bouncer that he copped from an 18 year old Wasim a year earlier.
Yeah, That's why I said on paper. That was Cairns last test. But thinking more I do actually think it was our strongest actual team ever. Only Cairns on the decline.

As opposed to my other example of the 83 world cup team which had old Turner, young Crowe, seriously declining Howarth.
 

flibbertyjibber

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Just nice that NZ fans can talk positively about the team and the prospects are good for many years as long as Boult and Southee remain injury free. With Williamson, Boult, Southee, Neesham, Anderson and Latham they have a crop of excellent young players to go with the experienced ones. Very good balance and can only get better.

As for WI, it is early days with a new captain and things can only get better.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
I agree that that 85/86 side was probably our best, but this wasn't a bad batting lineup a few years later (2 batsmen in the top 7 rankings and 4 in the top 17 and throw in slim Ian Smith - the best keeper in the world between Dujon and Healy, and a bloke called Sir Richard something and on paper this was pretty good):

Reliance ICC Player Rankings
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Well i write this with stomach full of bitterness. But congratulations to NZ for a comprehensive victory, i said chickens shouldn't be counted after the first innings..but ironically that's exactly what won the match in the end.

Today lies a very dark cloud over our cricket..the selctors keep getting it wrong, the coach doesn't inspire confidence and we keep giving failures chance after chance...will this be a watershed moment? we'll see.

Here are my throughts

Powell= done..was poor all through 2013 but was the selectors "pet project" and they still went with him despite Brathwaite dominating at both first class and A-team level

Gayle= one of the few to really attack Craig..he stays for now

Samuels= finished..had a brilliant 2012 and virtually won us the t20 title single handidly,..sorry it's ended this way Marlon.

Edwards= position in major doubt..the guy is too lax and tbh failing against a rookie spinner twice is unforgivable..he's in trouble.

Darren Bravo= Not in any danger but he better get his act together...we need him to fire if we are to turn this series around..will be on his home turf next game so it's a good place to start.

Chandepaul= Same old Shiv...how he was given out in the second innings i don't know but hey that's how it's going for us these days

Ramdin= Stood up like a captain should..now he's got a lot of work to do to gee up his troops

Shillingford= Gibbo has already cast doubt on his position...all depends on if Narine comes back or not

Benn= Bowled really well in spells...the kind of guy who Narine could feed off more than Shilly can imo

Taylor= Showed his class in the second innings...and tbh i'm expecting him to get better and better

Roach= First innings well under cooked, second innings we saw what he can do when he gets overs under his belt...next game i suspect he'll improve even more

One shining light is we can say we won the "second half" of the test match if one wanted to use a football analogy. It looked quite interesting to see our attack finally put NZ on the backfoot in the second digg..


Players likely to come in and replace Powell, Edwards and Samuels are

Brathwaite= no brainer..been one of the best bats in the caribbean over the last two years and is high on confidence.

Blackwood= been sensational of late..very aggressive and won't let the likes of Craig dictate terms

the third one is tough...in theory they may go with Leon johnson who like Brathwaite has had a very good last two years both domestically and for the A-team. But if we continue to play two spinners then Fudadin or Carter may be the better options as both bowl medium pace bowling, especially Carter who has a nagging line similar to Shane Watson.

The Narine situation is gonna heat up big time now...there are reports that they'll let him play the third test HERE ..but obviously that would be complete madness when you consider the next match is on his own turf and we're one down. The difference Narine would make to us is quite staggering...cause we all know thus far he's been NZ's boogy man in every sense of the word,..both home and away..so one could only imagine what would happen if the kiwi top order face Sunil on his own ground.

Moving forward i expect NZ's line-up to stay the same bar Fulton,..i think it's vital we win the toss and bat first next game...in these last four matches NZ have batted first three times...and low and behold the time we batted first is the time we had a first innings lead.

some observations about NZ

Fulton= has to go

Latham= done very well but it will be interesting to see how he does if Narine is playing considering sunny caused him major problems the last time they met

Mccullum= not settled down yet but remains a major threat

Taylor= mentally it's a bright spot that he hasn't done too much damage yet...if we are to bounce back this needs to continue

Williamson= started well but he has a technical flaw by the looks of it...obviously for our sake i hope that continues

Neesham= i hope NZ keep him in the side...because i think Anderson is better tbh

Watling= was an annoying presence down the order..did good.

Craig= it's typical us isn't it? allow a rookie spinner to come and have a great time on debut!!...our top order just stood off him and allowed him to settle...very poor stuff. Was encouraging to see him get wacked around by shilly and Benn at the end...i'm sure that would have been noted by the WI staff.

Sodhi= still doesn't get me off my seat

Southee= was sensational..if he continues like this he'll go a long way

Boult= had a tough time which is another good sign for us moving forward


At this junture things very bleak for us now...but something inside of me believes this series is far from over...we'll see, might just be blind faith.
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Good post.

Chanderpaul did not get a bad decision. When you pad up to a leg break in turning conditions you can expect to be given 9 times out of 10. And the replays showed it hitting anyway, so I'm unsure why people think it was a controversial decision.
 
Last edited:

Flem274*

123/5
God it would be ***y if McCullum opened with Latham and we played both Neesham and Corey.
I would not be comfortable with Baz opening and one of those two at five. The batting would feel a bit short.

Lots of middle order batsmen and allrounders, no openers. The New Zealand problem since the beginning.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Good post.

Chanderpaul did not get a bad decision. When you pad up to a leg break in turning conditions you can expect to be given 9 times out of 10. And the replays showed it hitting anyway.
Eh, I think it was a more marginal call than 9 times out of 10, but I don't have too much sympathy for Chanders. As you say, replays suggest the ball would've tickled the left bail, and he'd already got away with a similar sort of shout in the first innings. If you keep padding up to balls turning back into you then eventually your luck will run out.

EDIT: just noted that it was Gayle who padded up to one in the first innings. Still the principle stands - pad up to a spinner turning the ball back into you and you're playing with fire.
 
Last edited:

Flem274*

123/5
Well write this with stomach full of bitterness. But congratulations to NZ for a comprehensive victory, i said chickens shouldn't be counted after the first innings..but ironically that's exactly what won the match in the end.

Today lies a very dark cloud over our cricket..the selctors keep getting it wrong, the coach doesn't inspire confidence and we keep giving failures chance after chance...will this be a watershed moment? we'll see.

Here are my throughts

Powell= done..was poor all through 2013 but was the selectors "pet project" and they still went with him despite Brathwaite dominating at both first class and A-team level

Gayle= one of the few to really attack Craig..he stays for now

Samuels= finished..had a brilliant 2012 and virtually won us the t20 title single handidly,..sorry it's ended this way Marlon.

Edwards= position in major doubt..the guy is too lax and tbh to faling against a rookie spinner twice is unforgivable..he's in trouble.

Darren Bravo= Not in any danger but he better get his act together...we need him to fire if we are to turn this series around..will be on his home turf next game so it's a good place to start.

Chandepaul= Same old Shiv...how he was given out in the secon innings i don't know but hey that's how it's going for us these days

Ramdin= Stood up like a captain should..now he's got a lot of work to do to gee up his troops

Shillingford= Gibbo has already cast doubt on his position...all depends in Narine comes back or not

Benn= Bowled really well in spells...the kind of guy who Narine could feed off more than Shilly can imo

Taylor= Showed his class in the second innings...and tbh i'm expecting him to get better and better

Roach= First innings well under cooked, second innings we saw what he can do when he gets overs under his belt...next game i suspect he'll improve even more

One shining light is we can say is we won the "second half" of the test match if one wanted to use a football analogy. It looked quite interesting to see our attack finally put NZ on the backfoot in the second digg..


Players likely to come in and replace Powell, Edwards and Samuels are

Brathwaite= no brainer..been one of the best bats in the caribbean over the last two years and is high on confidence.

Blackwood= been sensational of late..very aggressive and won't let the likes of Craig dictate terms

the third one is tough...in theory they may go with Leon johnson who like Brathwaite has had a very good last two years both domestically and for the A-team. But if we continue to play two spinners then Fudadin or Carter may be the better options as both bowl medium pace bowling, especially Carter who has a nagging line similar to Shane Watson.

The Narine situation is gonna heat up big time now...there are reports that they'll let him play the third test HERE ..but obviously that would be complete madness when you consider the next match is on his own turf and we're one down. The difference Narine would make to us is quite staggering...cause we all know thus far he's been NZ's boogy man in every sense of the word,..both home and away..so one could only imagine what would happen if the kiwi top order face Sunil on his own ground.

Moving forward i expect NZ's line-up to stay the same bar Fulton,..i think it's vital we win the toss and bat first next game...in these last four matches NZ have batted first three times...and low and behold the time we batted first is the time we had a first innings lead.

some observations about NZ

Fulton= has to go

Latham= done very well but it will be interesting to see how he does if Narine is playing considering sunny caused him major problems the last time they met

Mccullum= not settled down yet but remains a major threat

Taylor= mentally it's a bright spot that he hasn't done too much damage yet...if we are to bounce back this needs to continue

Williamson= started well but he has a technical flaw by the looks of it...obviously for our sake i hope that continues

Neesham= i hope NZ keep him in the side...because i think Anderson is better tbh

Watling= was an annoying presence down the order..did good.

Craig= it's typical us isn't it? allow a rookie spinner to come and have a great time on debut!!...our top order just stood off him and allowed him to settle...very poor stuff. Was encouraging to see him get wacked around by shilly and Benn at the end...i'm sure that would have been noted by the WI staff.

Sodhi= still doesn't get me off my seat

Southee= was sensational..if he continues like this he'll go a long way

Boult= had a tough time which is another good sign for us moving forward


At this junture things very bleak for us now...but something inside of me believes this series is far from over...we'll see, might just be blind faith.
Solid door stopper effort there. Why the 180 on Powell though? I thought you backed him to be better than Bravo pre-series?
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
It's not a tough decision. You don't drop a guy who's just scored 2 consecutive centuries unless it's for a senior player like Taylor, Williamson, McCullum or Watling.

Anderson has only played a handful of tests so he doesn't have automatic rights.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Eh, I think it was a more marginal call than 9 times out of 10, but I don't have too much sympathy for Chanders. As you say, replays suggest the ball would've tickled the left bail, and he'd already got away with a similar sort of shout in the first innings. If you keep padding up to balls turning back into you then eventually your luck will run out.

EDIT: just noted that it was Gayle who padded up to one in the first innings. Still the principle stands - pad up to a spinner turning the ball back into you and you're playing with fire.
Have you watched the replay? It pitched a wee bit outside off stump, was a full ball, and didn't even turn all that much.

It was an easy decision for mine.
 

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