***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Flem274*]

Guptill should replace Fulton imo. Need a sharp slip fielder and a batsman who times the ball nicely. Quick between the sticks too.

 

[Prince EWS]

Coming up next: someone will put forward a gambler's fallacy case for why someone is due a good/bad performance.

I reckon Sodhi will go well, he bowled some really threatening balls in NZ. Those half chances have to go our way some time.

 

[Blocky]

Which is why you're assessing him by his career average that has no actual bearing on how he is playing right now?

Oh like cricketers aren't assessed by their averages then...? If we're only taking their peak potential score then Brian Charles Lara is without doubt the greatest batsman of all time and Anil Kumble is second only to Jim Laker as a bowler.

Cricket is a game of averages. When did Jerome Taylor become a world beater? His average indicates he never was and five years out of the side due to injury/other players being selected indicates he probably never will be.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Windie I am your biggest supporter and your own self analysis is accurate - you are peeved about the Narine situation and some other issues. Normally you are more composed than this. You need to lift.

Regarding your conspiracy theory. I agree with it. I think the Windies do get shafted on a regular basis based on games have seen. It is because you are lowly ranked at the moment and umpires seem to pick on such teams. However whining about it isn't going to get you anywhere and secondly it sounds ridiculous because apart from me everyone else is going to think you are smoking something for even suggesting it. I would keep that theory to being conversation piece amongst you and your friends (even though you have a case IMHO).

Hurrican..you're certainly one of the posters i hold in high regard here, and i'm glad you've seen what i've seen as far as the 3rd umpire decisions are concerned..but to bite my tongue just isn't me mate..when emotions run high i tend to say what i feel...and i'm just sick of my team being on the short end of these kind of decisions...it's just not fair and it needs to be debated....when Broad didn't walk the other day we never heard the end of it...but when something happens against "little old WI" everyone wants to sweep it under the carpet.

 

[Athlai]

Oh like cricketers aren't assessed by their averages then...? If we're only taking their peak potential score then Brian Charles Lara is without doubt the greatest batsman of all time and Anil Kumble is second only to Jim Laker as a bowler.

Cricket is a game of averages. When did Jerome Taylor become a world beater? His average indicates he never was and five years out of the side due to injury/other players being selected indicates he probably never will be.

Yeah if you only want to use your jingoistic bull**** when it suits you then you should really not bother posting on a forum.

 

[Beamer]

I actually think with Shillingford messing up his action and not allowed to bowl his Doosra that Kane Williamson could potentially be the best spinner on display on either side at the moment in the absence of Narine.

This is the only thing you said that I disagree with. Unless Kane has become twice the bowler (well mango pelter anyway) I saw last Christmas then he is well behind Shilly, new action or not. There is no way he will turn the ball anywhere near as much as Benn or Shillingford, who as I keep saying, is an enormous spinner of his regular offie and always has been.

Everyone here knows I don't rate Sodhi and think that the NZ selectors/management have fallen into the old trap of 'we've got a young leggie, let's select him because he's got a half decent googly even though all the evidence suggests he will leak runs and isn't close to test standard.'

If Craig is as bad as some of you have made out, I'm looking forward to seeing him bowl. His FC stats are shocking!

 

[Flem274*]

Hurrican..you're certainly one of the posters i hold in high regard here, and i'm glad you've seen what i've seen as far as the 3rd umpire decisions are concerned..but to bite my tongue just isn't me mate..when emotions run high i tend to say what i feel...and i'm just sick of my team being on the short end of these kind of decisions...it's just not fair and it needs to be debated....when Broad didn't walk the other day we never heard the end of it...but when something happens against "little old WI" everyone wants to sweep it under the carpet.

Considering the sympathetic version of that trope is what you're appealing to with this post....

 

[Blocky]

To say Taylor was even a "35" bowler when he was first stopped for injury would be grossly unfair as well. He was an extremely talented young bowler who looked like he was going to be the best West Indian bowler since Walsh by a long way.

Southee averaged the same after almost as many matches.

Just last year he was at 36.

Show me three consecutive seasons where Taylor has averaged under 25 with the ball.

This whole Jerome Taylor love makes me laugh, to me he reminds me of Franklin Rose, Fidel Edwards, Mervyn Dillion, Tino Best, Corey Collymore, Marlon Black and a whole host of other Windies bowlers who just weren't good enough to play test cricket.

If you're talking about Roach and his abilities when he's fully match fit and well practiced? Different story - I'd agree with you, Roach has (and has done in the last three years) the potential to rip NZ apart. But Taylor? Sodhi has as much likelihood of ripping the Windies apart as Taylor does NZ.

 

[hendrix]

Despite Ishant tearing the NZ side apart in one of the innings, and taking fifteen for the two match series.

In case you didn't actually watch the test series:
1. Ishant bowled in the absolute best conditions to bowl in the series. NZ lost both tosses on green wickets.
2. 6/134 (run rate of 4 and over!) in green conditions against a weak batting lineup and conceding 503 runs in the process is not "tearing the NZ side apart"
3. He bowled reasonably well in Wellington in the most helpful conditions a bowler could ever ask for.
4. The seam was always scrambled. The pace was never above 135. Any lateral movement was due to the pitch, not due to his seam presentation for swing or seam movement.
5. I suppose you still have to put it in the right areas...which he did, at 125kph.
6. 45 overs, 164 runs, zero wickets. Absolutely dreadful in the second innings.
7. He averages 38 in test matches, at an expensive economy rate, and a poor strike rate.

He is the worst fast bowler to ever play 50 tests.

 

[Dan]

Coming up next: someone will put forward a gambler's fallacy case for why someone is due a good/bad performance.

In fairness, Ishant was long overdue for a good performance in NZ. Perhaps the luck will continue and he'll catch up over the next 12 months?

Guptill should replace Fulton imo. Need a sharp slip fielder and a batsman who times the ball nicely. Quick between the sticks too.

AWTA. Not like anybody else suggested it about 6 pages ago, though

 

[Blocky]

This is the only thing you said that I disagree with. Unless Kane has become twice the bowler (well mango pelter anyway) I saw last Christmas then he is well behind Shilly, new action or not. There is no way he will turn the ball anywhere near as much as Benn or Shillingford, who as I keep saying, is an enormous spinner of his regular offie and always has been.

Everyone here knows I don't rate Sodhi and think that the NZ selectors/management have fallen into the old trap of 'we've got a young leggie, let's select him because he's got a half decent googly even though all the evidence suggests he will leak runs and isn't close to test standard.'

If Craig is as bad as some of you have made out, I'm looking forward to seeing him bowl. His FC stats are shocking!

Craig is accurate - that's about the only thing I'll say for him and I think he'll be a handful if the pitch turns explosive like Sabina Park has had a tendency to do in the final days of a test recently. Sodhi isn't accurate, however, and is likely to squander a helpful pitch just as much as utilise it.

 

[Flem274*]

This is the only thing you said that I disagree with. Unless Kane has become twice the bowler (well mango pelter anyway) I saw last Christmas then he is well behind Shilly, new action or not. There is no way he will turn the ball anywhere near as much as Benn or Shillingford, who as I keep saying, is an enormous spinner of his regular offie and always has been.

Everyone here knows I don't rate Sodhi and think that the NZ selectors/management have fallen into the old trap of 'we've got a young leggie, let's select him because he's got a half decent googly even though all the evidence suggests he will leak runs and isn't close to test standard.'

If Craig is as bad as some of you have made out, I'm looking forward to seeing him bowl. His FC stats are shocking!

I agree with everything here, except I'm a Mark Craig fan. Don't get me wrong he's raw as ****, but unlike a lot of new young finger spinners in this country he's fashioning himself as a classical red ball offspinner and he's very nice to watch. He has some ability but obviously he's very, very raw. I hope he has a good tour but my head says no.

 

[hendrix]

If Craig is as bad as some of you have made out, I'm looking forward to seeing him bowl. His FC stats are shocking!

Craig isn't bad. He's better than Sodhi.

 

[Blocky]

In case you didn't actually watch the test series:
1. Ishant bowled in the absolute best conditions to bowl in the series. NZ lost both tosses on green wickets.
2. 6/134 (run rate of 4 and over!) in green conditions against a weak batting lineup and conceding 503 runs in the process is not "tearing the NZ side apart"
3. He bowled reasonably well in Wellington in the most helpful conditions a bowler could ever ask for.
4. The seam was always scrambled. The pace was never above 135. Any lateral movement was due to the pitch, not due to his seam presentation for swing or seam movement.
5. I suppose you still have to put it in the right areas...which he did, at 125kph.
6. 45 overs, 164 runs, zero wickets. Absolutely dreadful in the second innings.
7. He averages 38 in test matches, at an expensive economy rate, and a poor strike rate.

He is the worst fast bowler to ever play 50 tests.

I was posting in the thread during the series, telling you all that Wagner would perform and making you eat crow when he did..... if you don't remember.

My history on judging likely performance of fast bowlers in a series seems to be a little better than your history so far.

 

[Prince EWS]

This is the only thing you said that I disagree with. Unless Kane has become twice the bowler (well mango pelter anyway) I saw last Christmas then he is well behind Shilly, new action or not. There is no way he will turn the ball anywhere near as much as Benn or Shillingford, who as I keep saying, is an enormous spinner of his regular offie and always has been.

Williamson's not as good a bowler as Benn but I actually do think he'll get as much turn. He really rips it. Agree about Shillingford though.

If Craig is as bad as some of you have made out, I'm looking forward to seeing him bowl. His FC stats are shocking!

Craig will do well here IMO. I've had an extensive look at him in the vault. His stats are as much a reflection as the conditions he bowls in as his actual bowling. He bowls a high number of good deliveries that are rendered innocuous by the conditions back home. He's not really a Test class spinner regardless for mine but in no way is he as bad as those stats suggest, and the pitch offers him something he's capable of taking advantage. I don't think he's any better than Williamson and Jeetan Patel is certainly a superior bowler, but he should be able to build pressure and create chances in a way Sodhi most likely won't be able to.

 

[Blocky]

Yeah if you only want to use your jingoistic bull**** when it suits you then you should really not bother posting on a forum.

Jingoistic? I'm the only one making any sense - if NZ lose this series, it's an absolute disgrace considering the relative strengths and weaknesses of the side and recent history/performance. You consider that jingoistic? I consider that being willing to stand up and state an opinion about how the series will go down.

 

[Flem274*]

See you ****s at 3am if you're not all banned.

 

[Prince EWS]

Craig is accurate - that's about the only thing I'll say for him and I think he'll be a handful if the pitch turns explosive like Sabina Park has had a tendency to do in the final days of a test recently. Sodhi isn't accurate, however, and is likely to squander a helpful pitch just as much as utilise it.

I agree with everything here, except I'm a Mark Craig fan. Don't get me wrong he's raw as ****, but unlike a lot of new young finger spinners in this country he's fashioning himself as a classical red ball offspinner and he's very nice to watch. He has some ability but obviously he's very, very raw. I hope he has a good tour but my head says no.

Craig isn't bad. He's better than Sodhi.

Craig will do well here IMO. I've had an extensive look at him in the vault. His stats are as much a reflection as the conditions he bowls in as his actual bowling. He bowls a high number of good deliveries that are rendered innocuous by the conditions back home. He's not really a Test class spinner regardless for mine but in no way is he as bad as those stats suggest, and the pitch offers him something he's capable of taking advantage. I don't think he's any better than Williamson and Jeetan Patel is certainly a superior bowler, but he should be able to build pressure and create chances in a way Sodhi most likely won't be able to.

Looks like we're vaguely in agreement about him then.

 

[hendrix]

I was posting in the thread during the series, telling you all that Wagner would perform and making you eat crow when he did..... if you don't remember.

My history on judging likely performance of fast bowlers in a series seems to be a little better than your history so far.

yeah done with this.

Seeya at 3 in the morning.

I'm thinking about my breakfast already...

 

[Blocky]

Looks like we're vaguely in agreement about him then.

You make good sense about the conditions he bowls in. Otago is probably the worst deck in the country for spin and to be honest, no where really favors it.